Meet The Prof, with Shane & Spence

MTP 72: Charles Kemp Part 1, How Can Professors Share Jesus Naturally with their Students?

• Shane Hartley • Episode 72

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In this episode, we talk with Dr. Charles Kemp, Associate Professor of Teacher Education and Program Coordinator and Intervention Specialist at Shawnee State University in Ohio. Charles shares his journey from a fear-based view of God to a deep experience of God’s love, his years serving missionary kids in West Africa and Papua New Guinea, and the surprising path that led him into higher education. He also explains how he boldly but wisely identifies himself as a Jesus follower in the classroom and models community for a generation hungry for relationships.

Read more about Charles Kemp online: https://meettheprof.com/view/professors/entry/charles-kemp/


Main Takeaways
 • Many Christian professors underestimate how freely and legally they can share their identity in Christ with students.
 • Introducing yourself as a Jesus follower frames your identity without proselytizing.
 • Students are hungry for authenticity, community, and relational connection.
 • God uses early life experiences to prepare us for surprising future callings.
 • Fear of God can grow into reverence when it becomes rooted in love rather than punishment.

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Welcome everybody to Meet the Prof. Hey there, I'm Shane Hartley, and this is the podcast where we interview Christian professors with a goal of encouraging Christ-centered conversations on the college campus. And we're so glad you're with us. Thanks for joining us. And today we have a treat. I'm going to interview Dr. Charles Kemp. Charles is an Associate Professor of Teacher Education at Shawnee State University in Ohio. He's also Program Coordinator and Intervention Specialist in the licensure program in their school of education. So Charles, welcome to Meet the Prof. How are you doing today? Doing well, thanks. It's a Friday, it's fall break, it's good. I love Fridays and especially fall break. you spending time with us on your fall break. So, one thing that you shared on meettheprof.com is that you are really into whodunit fictions. And when I was a kid, I got into Hardy Boys books and was just hooked, How did you get into whodunit fiction? So I think for the... thinking back, uh as we would prepare to go to the beach, uh my wife would head to the library and she'd just check out about eight or 10 books. Most of them were uh fiction, obviously, and most of them were uh crime-solving or whodunit type, you know, literature. And I found a couple authors that uh I enjoy. And so we just keep... checking out their books anytime we head on any kind of an extended break. And it's a fun way to kind of disengage from regular life, so to speak, but also uh kind of begin thinking, can I solve this and figure it out before I get to the end? So it's been fun. So I started with these books as a kid and then I haven't read anything like that in years and you started later and so just hearing you say that makes me think I would probably enjoy these kind of books more because I do enjoy puzzles. I'll sit and do puzzles. Well, you know, Charles, that we always like to start with asking something of what's an embarrassing moment you ever had, either as a professor or when you were a college student. So it happened just uh two days ago, actually. ah We were having some class discussion and I was interacting with one of my students and referred to another student in class by the wrong name, uh to which the student with which I was interacting kind of looked at me with a puzzled look. and then realized, that's just Dr. Kemp and his poor memory of what student names are. And she just went right on. And it didn't hit me until this morning. I thought, oh, I referred to that student by the wrong name. So I quickly sent an email and sent my apologies. So it happens. uh I'm getting old. No, you know, you get an A for trying. A lot of professors don't even try to remember their students' names. Well, so, well, I'm really interested, Charles, in some of your early spiritual journey. I loved hearing on Meet the Prof that you came to Christ early. I think you said, were you five years old? So I was wondering, like, as you were growing up, as a young Christian, if you can tell us some about what that journey was like for you and especially were there any like moments or events that were life-changing for you, times where you really had to learn to trust God? so while I was saved at a young age, like life was very appealing. I was fearful enough of my father to not get involved in too much crazy stuff as a kid. and I had, um, enough fear of God in kind of a good way, I think. more of a reverence for him. And so while I wanted to get involved in some of, you know, not so healthy lifestyles as a teenager, um I didn't, um but also didn't feel like I fit in. um And it really wasn't until I got away to Bible college. I knew I wanted to be a missionary from a young age. My parents had missionaries in the home often. I joke. Growing up, I think missionaries slept in my bed more than I did. I slept on the couch and that's no complaint. Like I loved it because we heard stories of what was going on mostly in South America growing up and the gospel was just penetrating some of those areas. Lives were being changed and things. And I knew that's what I wanted to do. I wasn't going to college. uh I was just going to go be a missionary. I'd take whatever training I needed and and get to the mission field. Part of that training was Bible school and it was during those days that I really came to terms with if this is gonna be my life, I've gotta get serious about my faith and knowing what it means to be a Christ follower. I'm still growing, almost 50 years later, still growing. But yeah, was during those days that I really came to the place to say, I've got to get serious about this. You know, part of your journey was, it's exciting to read, like you worked as a teacher to missionary kids in West Africa. You came back, you were a high school principal, like middle school principal, then administrator and all. And then it led you to getting your PhD and being a professor now. So how did you see God's hand work in all of that journey? m I guess having been a pretty poor student coming through elementary and high school, was a uh C student at best with lots of work. um So the fact that I am where I am right now is just surprising to me on a regular basis. um looking back, seeing how God worked and uh kind of carved out that road for my life, um intersected my life with key people who made things possible for me. um Sometimes that was funding for, you know, college. Sometimes it was a job opportunity that I didn't even know existed. uh And ah I spent about 10 years as a special ed supervisor at a small city school system. And one day I came home and told my wife, don't want to do management the rest of my career. And she said, what will you do? And I said, well, I'll go back to the classroom and be a classroom teacher. she's like, kids have kind of changed since you've been at central office. I'm not sure that's going to be a good place for you. I said, well, I'll go to the university classroom then. And she said, well, what will that take? And I said, a doctorate. And she like, when do you start? And I'm like, wow. And even then, like God opened doors and, uh you know, I worked full time, um like many folks that are working through grad school and uh even post-grad, working full time, family responsibilities, um ministry at church. those kinds of things and just push through my grad, you know, my doc program particularly. um and had a wonderful dissertation chair that believed in my research and uh wanted me to get through as quickly as possible. And some of that was because I was 55 years old. Like I don't have a lot of time to be a college professor. Yeah. So, uh you know, I can look back and just see God's hand all the way through. If I wasn't going to be a missionary, I was going to be a teacher. I knew that involved college. That scared me to death as a teenager. uh And here now I'm training teachers. So to see the hand of God on my life is uh pretty amazing. Going full circle in places that you would not have thought you would go. Was that move that you made from West Africa, working in missions with missionary kids back to the US, was that a hard one? in what ways was there any kind of step of faith in doing that? It was a pretty huge step of faith to go to West Africa. um I bet. four daughters. Our youngest was two months old. Our oldest was seven. There were two in between. And, you know, we went very under supported. We were young and dumb and just believed God could do anything and he can and he did. But that, I mean, it wasn't a careless attitude, but it was just God wants us to do this. He'll provide and make a way. and our ministry was to go learn French and then work at a school for missionaries children and actually be the school administrator and get it going uh in greater ways than it was. It was very early days of beginning. um And I had just graduated with my undergrad in teacher education, so I didn't have a lot of experience. And to see God do all that, you know, it was just really, really incredible. And to see what we're able to do for families to really meet the needs of their children and their educational needs. Um, so to leave that, kind of life and enter public education in the United States, um, was something I really never thought I would do. Um, I wasn't anti, I wasn't opposed. was, it just wasn't on my radar. Um, and, and God clearly gave direction that this is where I want you to be and, and open a job I didn't even know existed, um, for me. And, um, you know, just had to work through some of the complications of that. get licensure and you know all of those things take some more classes um and God orchestrated every part of that. It was unbelievable. So how long were you there in West Africa? We were there eight years and then we spent a year in Papua New Guinea. my goodness, that's amazing. So, sounds like more the step of faith was going there and then God paved the way to make it smoothly when He wanted you to come back. So that's great how He did that. Yeah. Was there anything you learned as a child about Jesus or appreciated about Jesus or the way you saw God work that really helped carry you through later in your relationship with Jesus? Um. My childhood fear of God, you know, he would, and that was kind of implanted in me by family, but more so by my church that I grew up in. Not that God was out to get me. But you better be careful. You got to toe the line. Live the list. There's these things you do, and there's things you don't do. And you better never do those things on that don't do list kind of a thing. And that was kind of the upbringing. So there was this fear of God that do the wrong thing, and he'll get you kind of a thing. And it wasn't like super heavy in my life, but it was always there. uh Now it kept me from doing some things and I'm very thankful for that. That reverence now that I look back and can refer to it as that really kept me from doing some things that just would not have been healthy good choices. um Fast forward, I think um as I've thought about this question a little bit. I think it was reading Francis Chan's Crazy Love for the first time that I really came to understand God loves me. Like he is not out to get me. um He always has good planned for me. He always wants good things for me. And my life will be blessed as I follow him and walk in his ways. And, you know, as a father, he corrects me, right? He redirects when I go the wrong way and do the wrong things. But he loves me in spite of all that. In fact, loved me before I was even a child of his, right? Scripture tells us that he loved us even when we were enemies with him. oh And that's love, that is deep love. uh And I love, you know, Chan's like take on it. That's crazy love, it really is. And when I came to understand that and have come to understand it more um since that first reading, I think that's been one of the greatest parts of my life. So that's encouragement to me. think a lot of us Christians will feel like we're always disappointing God. And we might not say we're afraid of God, but in some ways, we're really not experiencing His love for us. And I think for a lot of faculty where there's a lot of pressure in the workplace, that maybe they put some pressure on themselves. So that's a good word. Thanks for sharing. about how God is leading you more into His love there. Well, so one of my favorite things when we start talking about your ministry on campus, what you've seen God do on campus, uh I love bringing in these questions from college students. So I have a question for you that's from Rachel Ward. Take a listen to her question. uh Rachel, great question. I love the fact that you're a nursing student. You'll be in the people helping profession, making a difference in their lives. uh I loved your question. How do I and others as Christian professors uh boldly live out our faith, uh but also respect the constraints that we live under at a university, legally? um For me, as a new professor, I was a little older in my life when I started. um And I guess I didn't know better, to be honest. um I was going to live out my faith regardless, um because I had, I always had. um Didn't matter where I was living or working, I had always lived out my faith as boldly as I could. um Folks that I worked with, regardless of where it was, knew that I was a Jesus follower. That was important to me because that's who I am. It's not just part of my life. And so when I moved into the professor world, the university world, um I just did the same. um And then thankfully I came across Faculty Commons and Dennis Beck, one of the folks that works with Faculty Commons. And... um He shared and others uh at A Common Call that I went to as uh a young professor in my career anyway, being young. And we were challenged there to open any new class with the statement of something like, uh my name is Dr. Kemp, I'm gonna be your professor this semester. uh little about me, I'm a Jesus follower. And what that means is I depend on him for every aspect of my life. He is my guide, he's my savior, he is my protector, he's my provider, he's my shepherd. um Because of that, because those things are true in my life, and as I live that out, I hope you see that I treat you differently maybe than you've been treated by some others in your life. And so if you have any questions about that, I'd love to sit and talk with you. So. The next opportunity, that's what I did. And I've done it ever since. even when I have, because we're a small university, even when I have some of the same students in my class for a consecutive semester or more, I always start that way. Just recently this semester, I had some brand new students in my course and three or four of those students responded back to me in writing like, I so appreciate your love for Jesus and the fact that you're willing to put it out there and live that way as a professor. And I really admire that. students are listening, students are really listening. So for the professors that are watching this and particularly the young professors, be bold. We're told in a word to be bold in our faith and put it out there that you're a Jesus follower and what that means and why that will make a difference in your students' lives. They're listening and they will respond and they will respect you and even come to you with questions. So Charles, you were talking about the fear of God, and I think a lot of faculty will have the fear of their chair or the fear of administration. Can you talk some about what are real risks with letting your students know you're a Christian and what may be our imaginative? fears? Well, I think, um sadly, too many of us as professors believe that we can't say anything. You can't mix church and state, so to speak. You can't um talk about your faith. It'll be misconceived as proselytizing and... That's not the case. I've not found that to be the case. And as I've challenged other professors to do the same, they've not found it. And I've listened to other folks in other universities. When you're introducing yourself to your students, who you are is who you are. And if you're a Jesus follower, that's who you are. And you're free to talk about that as we should. um And... you know, as I come across um aspects in my reading, uh I'll bring that in at the start of the class. Hey, how are we doing today? How are we doing this week? um Some of my students are student teaching. How is it going in the field? uh you know, and get a little feedback from them. And then I share, know, for me, I came across this, this part of this part of my reading this week and it really challenged me and I'll, just share the verse with them. And I, I be a Bible reading. That's awesome. so I just share the verse and I said, you know, this verse really challenged me this week. um And I don't know where you are in your faith, but you know, for me in my faith, it really challenged me. And I just wanted you to know that. And then we move on to the objectives for the day. um And so I think we can be much more vocal about it when we're talking about us. um And it would be wrong of me to try to... convince and convert my students in class. um There's a rightful platform that I have as a professor, but I don't get that right to be able to preach at them. um And I think there's ways that we can integrate our faith and be bold about it and talk about it in very natural ways. Heather Holleman talks about it in her book, A Grander Story, and how she just integrates what she's reading into her classes. And it was real challenge for me. Like it really challenged me. And I just began asking God, can you show me ways I can do that? Because what we know is the Word is powerful and it changes lives. And so as I put it out there, I just let God do his work. That's encouraging. Heather Holleman, one thing that I appreciate about her is she talks to non-believers like she talks to her believing friends. She'd tell them, let me tell you something I was praying about and God answered this way. I love that kind of transparency and not being one person within one and one with another. So, right, so Charles, let's double click on this some more. Some faculty, some Christian faculty would say, I'm not comfortable letting my students know I'm a Christian the same way I'm not comfortable letting them know what political party I affiliate with. But what you've described is that you share that you're a Christian because this is more your identity. This is like who you are. Can you talk more about how that makes a difference really expressing to your students your Christianity based on your identity. Sure. So one of the other things that I tell them as I introduce myself is I've been married now almost 47 years. Well, that kind of rattles some of my students and I've even seen them like whisper to their partner, like, my parents aren't even that old, right? um So for them to have somebody, to know somebody that's been married that long to the same person um also opens up doors of opportunity, right? Because I've had two or three students who are maybe engaged to get married and they're going to graduate and then get married. I've had two or three of them say, Dr. Kemp, you've been married to Sue, who they meet in my home. You've been married to her for more than 45 years. Like, how's that been possible? Give me some secrets. So that's, I mean, that's who I am, right? I'm married to my wife and I'm a Jesus follower. It's who I am. It's my identity. Like that's how I identify. I'm a Jesus follower. And so I just naturally talk about what that looks like. I've had the opportunity to go to a couple of Faculty Commons gatherings and and I talk about that because one of the things that uh I really work with my students is self care and taking care of ourselves so that we can take care of those to whom we've been entrusted. um And so I'll tell them a. class is gonna be online next week. I'm going to a meetup with a bunch of other Christian professors who are gonna speak into my life and encourage me and strengthen me so that I can be a better professor because I need that for self care. And so I just tell them what's going on in my life because we wanna know what's going on in theirs. I think it's only right that they know some things that's going on in my life. uh And as I've opened up that way, it's then created opportunities for them to come stop by the office and say, hey, Dr. Kemp, I a question. Can you, you got a minute? know? And so I think, you know, letting them know this is who I am. I'm also a professor, like, and what that means is I've got some experience that I hope. can be beneficial in your life um to make you a great teacher, in my case, um in being a teacher preparation program. And so I think, you know, whether you're a chemist or you're a biologist or you're an English teacher, uh that's also, you know, that's also who you are. And you would impart things that you believe about those, you know, to your students. I just think it's, and again, you know, like I'm at an age where I'm like, okay, I mean, I'll quit or retire, you know, because I have to talk about who I am and who I am as a Jesus follower. And that does help to have uh some years behind you rather than the new faculty just trying to make tenure. But I love what you're saying. Is some of this that you're motivated because of uh the relationship? Like we speak about things that we care about, closer relationships. So when you're talking about your wife, it's natural to talk about you being married because uh your love for your wife, relationship. Is that sort of what you're uh talking about in your identity in Christ? Like your relationship with Him is so important that you share it naturally? Yeah, I think so. um You know, I talk about some of the things as a Jesus follower, like some of the things that I do on a daily basis to be able to deepen my relationship, you know, in my faith um and talk about the fact that I meet with other Christian professors on campus because um they help me grow. They develop me. They challenge me. um and relationships are really important. And I think uh if there's one thing that we know about this generation that's sitting in our classes across universities, wherever you are, is that they are longing for community and longing for relationship, and they don't know how to find them. Either one of them, well, um And I think as we can model that and talk about the community that we have with other Christian professors and the relationship that we have with Jesus and um why that's important to me and why that makes me who I am, I think that gives them m opportunity to think about Who's community for them and who are they in relationship with and how could that grow and develop? How could they seek that out to be able to meet that need? Because I think it's a felt need that we all have, um and particularly this generation. Well, let's pause right there. so Charles was just talking about community and professors are longing for community also. So if you are a Christian professor on your campus, but you don't know of other Christian professors, I'd encourage you to check out meettheprof.com and see if you find some Christian professors that way on your campus. But also I'd encourage you to go to facultycommons.com and there are resources there that may actually connect you with other faculty as well. So thanks for listening to this. And if you please remember to click on subscribe or like or follow, however you're listening or watching this, it doesn't cost anything, but it helps us get the word out to more professors and their students. And stay tuned for next week where we have part two of our interview with Charles Kemp. And You'll especially like the part where he talks about a mission trip he just went on with some other Christian professors and they connected with professors in Colombia. That's South America, not Columbia, South Carolina. and if you're a college student and you would like to submit a question for professors, you can find us on Instagram , @meettheprofofficial and just send us a DM where you're stating your name, your campus, and what your question would be. And we'd love to have you on the show. And lastly, if you're listening and you'd be interested in supporting our ministry, thank you so much for that. And you can give online securely at give.cru.org/ 0 42 43 44. So until next time, we hope this encourages you to have a Christ-centered conversation on your college campus.