Meet The Prof, with Shane & Spence

MTP 68: Karen Liller Part 1, How to Build Resilience and Encourage Compassion

• Shane Hartley • Episode 68

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Spence and I were impressed by Karen's compassion for her students. In part 1 of this interview, Dr. Karen Liller, Distinguished University Health Professor at the University of South Florida and Director of the Activist Lab, shares her journey of faith, grief, and resilience. From childhood imagination to moments of public embarrassment, to losing her sister to cancer, Karen reveals how God patiently restored her faith and gave her opportunities to love and teach with compassion. 

Read more about Karen Liller online:
 https://meettheprof.com/view/professors/entry/karen-liller/

Main Takeaways

  • Professors face embarrassing and humbling moments that become growth opportunities.
  • Faith can be tested deeply through family loss and grief, but God’s patience leads us back.
  • Compassion is an essential quality for caregivers, professors, and students alike.
  • Personal loss can fuel greater love for others and open doors for deeper conversations about faith.

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Welcome everybody to Meet the Prof. My name is Shane Hartley. I'm joined here with my good friend, Spence Hackney. is our podcast, Meet the Prof, where we interview Christian professors with questions we get from college students and our goal is to encourage Christ-centered conversations on the college campus. Well, we are very privileged to have the time now and interview with Karen Liller. And Karen is at the University of South Florida. She's a distinguished university health professor, as well as the interim chair of community health sciences department. She's also the director of the activist lab and near to my heart, she's a host of a podcast, Ad-Vocation Change It Up. So welcome Dr. Liller. How are you today? Well, I'm fine and thank you so much for having me on your podcast. Well, our pleasure. So I always like to start with something that you've written on meettheprof.com. So can you tell us more about your imaginary friend as a child? Right, and I know when I saw this I thought, oh, okay, we'll start off with my imaginary friend. yes, when I was a child, I don't know how young I was. I can't remember not having my little imaginary friend. But all of a sudden, I just started talking to my imaginary friend when I played or when I was outside, telling him everything I was doing and things I was worried about and concerned. And I know my mom knew I had an imaginary friend. I don't think now anyone else did except now all of you know that I had this friend, but it's kind of funny. You know, as you grow up, you think, oh, wow, that I'll never think of that again. But every now and then, even when you're grown up, I think, hmm, I want to tell my imaginary friend this. ah gosh, I just call him friend a lot of the time, John Dee for a while. I mean, I had all kinds of names. I also did things like, I think I always knew I wanted to be teaching or in academia because when I was little and I've read other people have said this too about themselves, like I would have school with all of my dolls and all of my play things. I would align them all up, you know, and I would say, all right, today, I hope you did your homework because we're ready to go with this or that. So. Yeah, I my imaginary friend. I had a pretty vivid imagination, I think then. It was, it really was, yeah. Sometimes I'd take my kids to school and we would see um on the telephone wires, they had the high wires, there would be birds lined across. Sometimes as they do, as they sit on the wires, my kids would say, mom, take a look at that. And I'd say, see, they're in school. I don't know, they're all lined up, ready to go. I don't know where it came from. Teacher at heart. Yeah, I think so. I love it. I feel like we've covered some of this already, but do you have a most embarrassing moment in addition to the imaginary friend you'd like to share? Well, think, know, I met a most embarrassing moment, of course, as a college student, I can remember. So I am from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I grew up about, I grew up in Canonsburg. It's about an hour outside of Pittsburgh. And I went to receive my bachelor's at West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia. And Beautiful, beautiful school, beautiful state. So unfortunately though, it snows a lot like in Pennsylvania and it gets very cold. And we had at West Virginia, we had the mountain lair and the mountain lair is like the student center. Okay, and it's huge as where you congregated, and they had now it's fantastic with restaurants and everything in there. But you know, they had a large area of steps in front of this huge. Mountainlair and you got to remember the mountains are in the background and everything. Well, it was winter and of course I went to college. I was only 17 when I started my freshman year and um you know you want to be very sophisticated and you want to be like you know everything and I didn't know anything really at the time and so I remember walking in the mountain lair and sitting outside where all these people young men young women they sat on the steps and everything. Well, I tried to look very sophisticated and like I knew everything and I started walking and I slipped as you do and fell flat on my face in front of everybody sitting on those steps and yeah they got a good laugh out of that and you know said that must be a freshman and everything so as I said it was it was a great lesson in humility at that point so I said alright so that was really embarrassing and then as a college professor I can remember I was, you know, one of my early classes and this was back in the days when we had the overhead projectors and the transparencies and everything that you used and so I'm giving my age away a little bit but I went in, I was already had my notes, of course that was before a lot of computers and a lot of the things that we have now and files and you know different drives you can use. Well, I stood there, I said welcome to the class and they said yeah hello and so uh I went to turn on everything. Absolutely nothing worked. Like nothing. None of the projectors, none of there was no you know that was back in the days of chalk, chalkboard. So we didn't have any of that. No marker board, no nothing and they're just looking at me. I said well. I did have, so what's your name? So we did the name thing and I'm thinking, my goodness, what am I gonna do here? So I literally had to leave the room because that was also before the day when you could just automatically call and you your IT staff showed up in a heartbeat. I had to leave, leave them, leave them sitting there. They were freshmen too, so I'm thinking, they're gonna leave. So leave them and go find help. It was the most humiliating, because I was so prepared, so ready and it just knocked me off. just knocked me off course right there. ah But I came back in, it took about 20 minutes, but that was, yeah, that was very embarrassing. So now I really double check and check and triple check to make sure, but still it's happened again. Things don't work. So. Would you say that's a new faculty's nightmare? New faculty nightmare. You walk in, not only do they not listen or don't care what you're saying, uh none of your equipment works. And so yeah, that happened. Well, you'll encourage some of our listeners who are new faculty that uh there is bouncing back after that. It's not the end of the world if that happened. You will. You know, they They say professors and teachers are frustrated actors and actresses. So I think in all of us, there's a little bit of that, you know, acting. I have it. Well, you said on meettheprof.com that you've been a Christian for as long as you can remember, which is a beautiful testimony to be able to say that. uh When would you say was a time in your life that your faith was tested? Yeah, and I, you know, as I was writing this, said I prayed that I can make it through this without tears, so I think I will. But I'll tell you the story. It is true. I grew up ah in a wonderful family. um Grew up Christian. It's all we knew, you know, from the beginning. That's all I can remember about my faith is that, you know, basically that's how my parents were and that's how they taught us. So I grew up in Pittsburgh and my dad was a bank executive and I went to Duquesne right in Pittsburgh University for his degree in the Stonier Graduate School of Banking. He won awards but he was so great. He was a first-generation college graduate so it was quite the big deal. My mom was a homemaker as they did back in those days. She later went to Bible College though and she later taught uh Bible lessons, know, at church and in different areas. um So I am one of three girls. So we had three girls in the family and it ended up that all of us ended up in Tampa after college graduation. My dad was transferred. I moved down. My older sister moved down. They brought my younger sister because she was little at the time. And we all lived within a few miles of each other. So what that meant was our kids who were cousins, we each had two, became best friends. So it was quite a great thing. We all were Christian. We went to church on Sunday. After church, we went out to lunch and then we went back to my mom and dad's house and they had a pool and the kids swam and we had family time and every holiday, you know, every event. So we were very, very close. So our family, my dad always said, God first, then family, then everything else. um that's what he lived by and that's what he taught us. And he always taught us to be very, very, uh very close to our family. So life was pretty idyllic, you know. We of course had, nobody's perfect, no family's perfect. You you have your squabbles, you have your fights, but we always had a strong foundation. oh in Tampa, yeah, I know. Thank you. So in 2007 though, sadly we lost my dad. He had a cerebral aneurysm so we lost him and he was only 77 so he wasn't very old. But so that happened but really what sort of shook the waters was that year my sister Lisa um was diagnosed with neuroendocrine cancer. She was in her early 40s. That's a very serious cancer. And because I was a professor at that time of public health, I knew people and we had the fantastic Moffitt Cancer Center right here, which is, can't say enough about. They did a wonderful job. I knew people. I knew people at USF Health that could help. They were fantastic. Steve Clasco, my good friend who found us the best doctors. My older sister Cheryl is a pharmacologist, so she had her own pharmaceutical company so she knew many people too. So we got Lisa the best help and this was the baby of the family and so you know my mom you know my mom was there all the time. I tried to go to all of her sessions and her appointments. Well the sad story is um she as I say went home with the Lord when she was 49. Yeah so we battled that seven years. Wow. you know, it was, it was hard. I mean, I can't tell you the hardest thing. And what you got to know about Lisa, she was phenomenal Christian. I mean, she made me look not near her. You know, I mean, she was so phenomenal. She was about saving people, saving people's souls. She was an accountant. She worked and everything, but she was all about her faith ever since I can remember. And my dad says she was like an angel, you know, on earth. And what happened was one day we were at a chemotherapy session and the nurse said, oh, hey, Lisa, I really like that bracelet you got on. And being Lisa, most people would say, oh, thank you. I appreciate that. She said, oh, really? She took it off. She goes, it's yours. And she gave it to her. And I was like, you gave her your bracelet. She goes, I know, she liked it, it's fine. It's just something, it's just stuff. It's just stuff. I said, okay, so she gave her a bracelet. So that was her. But when we lost her, it really, your question about testing my faith, that's kind of a long way to get to it, but it really did. Because we had prayed for a miracle, a miracle, a miracle. We were strong believers and we said, God can do anything. He can cure anybody. So why Lisa? He would want Lisa here for all the good work that she did. when she did, when we didn't think we got our miracle, you know, I was, I turned away. I actually stopped going to church. didn't pray. It's not that I didn't believe anymore. I just was mad. I was mad at God. And I said to him, I'm mad at you. oh I am mad at you because you didn't give us that miracle. We're good Christians. We believed all that, you know, we're good about this. So we had a doctor that after it happened and we said to the doctor, you know, we prayed for seven years for our miracle and it didn't happen. And he said, well, you know what? He said, you had seven years of miracles. And I said, how can you say that? He goes, because she survived. much longer than any of my patients. And I said, okay, and so I did get some solace from that, but it didn't make the feelings that I had go away. So I stopped going to church as I said, I took the kids, my kids, but I myself really took a step back. Hmm. However, what happened was, you know, life, other things happen. Other things begin to happen in your life. And I found myself one day just saying, I gotta pray again. I can't do this alone. And I did. I prayed and I said, all right, God, I'm still kind of mad at you. You know, it's like when you have an argument with somebody, you're still kind of mad at them. But I said, I'm gonna talk to you again. Because I got this over here, so we're just... on a kind of getting back, you know, and it took a period of time, but over time I began to understand better about this whole episode with Lisa, and realizing that we did have miracles. We did. And just just realizing all the good she did here, it's still remembered, you know, by a lot of people. And you know, do I understand it fully? No. But I got my faith back. And I think God was, I picture God during that time as just patiently waiting for me. You know, saying, well, yeah, she's mad at me, but she'll be back. And surely, surely I did. I often try to... I don't try to figure it out completely anymore because you know in our life, know the book, Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People? mean, life is, you know, it's going to be life, you know, and these things are going to happen but she was remarkable. And yeah, thank you. just goes out for you and your family going through that. What a powerful story of God's patience, that testimony you have of God patiently waiting there for you to come back. Yes. And I'm so glad. think I always knew that I kind of knew that I would. But at the moment, going through a painful, such a grieving, I was grieving for so long. I still do. You know, I have a psychologist friend that says, know, you'll continue to grieve until you cry your last tear. And I haven't yet, had my last tear. you know, it's, um, it's what it's, it's, know, it's life. Things happen to people. And I, I have such a hard time understanding how people get through this world without faith. I just, I can't imagine. I can't imagine. So. I've heard some people say that when they have gone through some trauma and they see God bring them through to the other side, that they would look back and say, I wouldn't wish that event or that trouble on my worst enemy. And yet at the same time, I really wouldn't change it now if I could because of how it changed me or my relationship with God. Would you say you've had a similar experience like that? Yeah, would never, uh I would say that. I would say that I wish I could have learned this another way. know? um No, I mean, was devastating. Of course you wish it didn't happen. However, did I learn things about myself? Completely. I learned a lot about myself and how to get back to faith once you've had something happen. I started a scholarship in Lisa's name here um for work not so much on the cancer she had, but on compassion. Because I want students to learn how to be compassionate caregivers. Because Lisa, when we would have compassionate and non-compassionate caregivers. And it meant so much to her when a caregiver showed love and concern. Mm-hmm. And that's what I wanted to take from her, you know, for other students. To learn that. To learn how to be compassionate and how to be loving with not only the patient, but with the family. Yeah. And all of us have experienced, I think probably, interactions with the healthcare system that have not been compassionate. At all. With the family or with the patient. and ah those that have, and those that have just really stuck in her mind. And that's what she wished, that's what she wanted. That's her legacy. Thank you, Karen. welcome. You know, one thing I think I'm learning about you too is that when you have been hurt as much as you have, you seem to have now a greater capacity of loving others. That this has actually fueled more compassion. Would you say so? I think it has and because you know when you go through something you either I think you either come out more compassionate like you say or more hardened. You know I think you can go the other way too. I think you can become very hard and very cynical. You know like what's the point? And I'm glad that I was God gave me the ability to not become a cynic. you know, and to say that, to go as you're saying, to be even more compassionate and understanding Was there ever a time through after you returned to the Lord, you're growing with Him, that He gave you the opportunity to take some kind of a step of faith? you know, this was, since that happened and even before, I think there's been lots, lots of times where I've taken that kind of, you know, step of faith. Before this even happened to Lisa, um you asked me, was there an uncomfortable moment in my life and then where I had to take a step of faith. Before this even happened with her, was learning, my bachelor's is in clinical lab science, and I was learning to be a medical technologist or a clinical lab scientist. And I had really good grades in high school and everything, so I get to college and I'm taking my first practical exam, which means you look through a scope and I was identifying tissues. And I thought I knew this pretty well. I got this. yeah, I didn't do well. So I didn't get a very good grade. talk about non-compassion. I had an instructor who was not very compassionate with me and proceeded to scold me and say, you know, if you don't do better on your next exam, you'll never graduate. Now that right there taught me how not to be a professor, but it also taught me that's not what I needed right then. What she created in me was an immense sense of self-doubt as if I ever was going to graduate, if I ever was going to, if this was the right field for me, why can't I do this? And I remembered feeling very uncomfortable about my choice, what I did, why I wanted to be in this field, why I was there, why I didn't do something else. And I remembered being young at that time, but just really praying and saying, God, you've got to, I'm stepping out on faith here. Maybe I'm not going to do well at this. Maybe I'm going to fail. And there's something else out there than waiting for me if I fail here. But you got to, this is going to be me and this is going to be you. And then through me, this is how it's going to work because I can't do it. This professor, this professor is out for me for some reason. And sure enough, the rest of my time, she did not like me and I don't know. why? All I did was bad on one exam. And but she was maybe she was just being strict to scare me but um yeah I really leaned then and and I think since Lisa I think I'm stepping out on faith. I think lots of times, you know, I'm much more, while I'm at a secular university, I am much more when I'm even outside the university, if someone is expressing to me an issue or a problem, I'm much, I think it has allowed me to say things like, find your faith, where is faith? And to talk to them about my beliefs and theirs, because I'm very respectful of all, I'm always respectful of all faiths. But I talk to them about what I believe. And I think that has allowed me to enter into conversations with people, even if they don't agree with what I believe or my faith, it has allowed that interaction to happen that maybe I wouldn't have before. But I always think Lisa's... You know, she's always like, there's your chance. There's your opening. Take it. Take it. Yeah, yeah, because I see her, I just see her going, take it. Take your opportunity. Well, we actually have a question from a college student named Jake, and he recorded ahead of time for you. So take a listen to this question. Well, you know, yes, I, well, I would have to say yes, you know, in public health, which is educating the population, just assuring conditions in which people can be healthy. It's population-based, not so much one-on-one between a healthcare worker and a patient, but it's population health. um And in education we learn a lot of different theories, right? We learn theories especially in my field. I'm a social scientist so behavioral theories. Why people do what they do, why they don't do what they should. And we learn about self-efficacy which is the confidence in yourself that you can do a behavior. And we learn about things like internal and external locus of control. Internal locus of control you're in charge of yourself and your destiny. External there's an outside force controlling you. um So all of these elements about why people do what they do and why they don't, they're interesting and you know but they are theories about things we've adopted. um But, you know, of course my faith also leans into the fact that God has a plan for all of us, is what I believe. And so when I teach about theories and why behavior and behavior change and health promotion and those things. I always, there's a, we have another model in public health called the social ecological model. And this model says, yes, people, their beliefs, what their attitudes are important, but also their interpersonal activities, whom they're their friends and their family. That has a big bearing on what you do. Also your community you live in, the organizations that are there and policies and laws. It's called intersect and there's this concept of intersectionality where it all kind of makes you you. It all works together. So when I teach about theories I tell the students it is a theory number one but number two look at this in a broad sense. Look at this is not just the person right? And I talk about faith and spirituality as important in the mix of who we are. And it's our interpersonal relationships, it's our church. One of the things that I talk about is communities and how churches, places of worship are important for people. And I always wish the church could even be more involved. in communities and in universities and colleges because it's part of what we believe and who we are. And I think to look at people and to say, it's all about me, right? Our pastor, have at Bay Hope Church here in Tampa, Pastor Matthew says, this is how humans are. He always goes like this, it's all about me. It's all about me. He said, well, it's not. And it's not.