MTP 37: Pamela Kelly on Encountering a Murderer, Christian Professors and the LGBTQ+ Community, and Career Advice.

Today’s episode covers some sensitive topics that may not be suitable for children. Please use discretion. 

Shane Hartley and Spence Hackney interview Dr. Pamela Kelly, an Adjunct Faculty of Healthcare Administration at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and a veteran of the US Navy. The discussion covers her life-changing experiences, including a harrowing encounter with a murderer, her approach to navigating faith in the context of LGBTQ+ issues, and how she encourages students to bring God glory in various professions. Dr. Kelly shares valuable advice for students and parents, emphasizing the importance of love, empathy, and trust in God.

email Pamela at: kellyp@uncw.edu

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https://meettheprof.com/view/professors/entry/pamela-kelly/

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Transcript

Shane (00:00)

Welcome to Meet the Prof. Hey, I'm Shane Hartley. My good friend, Spence Hackney and I interview Christian professors using questions from college students, and our goal is to encourage Christ-centered conversations on the college campus. Thank you so much for joining us. We are really glad you're here. And today you're going to hear our interview with Pamela Kelly. Pamela is not only a veteran of the US Navy, but she is an Adjunct Faculty of Healthcare Administration at the University of North Carolina Wilmington.

And today in the interview, we cover some really sensitive subjects. And so I would ask you to please use discretion before letting children hear today's interview and maybe using discretion if you're sensitive to violence. I think you will be encouraged by the transparency that Pamela gives of her own spiritual journey and how God has worked in her life.

And before we jump in, if you would please remember to subscribe wherever you're listening It doesn't cost anything, but that really helps get the word out to more college students. So, well, let's jump in. Here's our interview with Pamela Kelly.

Shane & Spence (01:06)

Well, Pamela, I am so excited. How are doing?

Dr. Pamela Kelly (01:09)

I am doing fabulous. Thanks for having me, Shane and Spence. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you.

Shane & Spence (01:15)

Yeah, And I'm particularly excited about talking to you because I read a bunch of great stuff on your Meet the Prof profile. And my favorite was that you gave a murderer a ride in your car. And I want to hear the whole story. I think we just need to start with that because true crime is big in the podcast genre. So maybe you can help us break into that. You've got a great story.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (01:36)

my, Spence, you're going to have me get emotional in the very beginning.

Shane & Spence (01:41)

Oh no!

Dr. Pamela Kelly (01:42)

This is one of my turning moments, my Christ turning moments when I realized the danger that the Lord protected me from. While I was in the military, I'm not gonna make the testimony very long, but while I was in the military, I acted as the healthcare, we'll say like the athletic trainer for the All-Marines basketball team.

So I would travel with the team. And one of the fellows on the team, the Marine team, was, I won't call his name.

But he was late for the bus, so he asked for a ride with me because I did not ride with the fellas. I drove my car separately. And I did take him to the game.

When we got to the game, he was unable to play because his hand kept bleeding.

And so when I looked at his hand, I said, wow, this gash is just too much for me. It's beyond my expertise to handle. You need stitches. And we were at another base, not his home base. He was like, I don't think I want to go to a doctor somewhere else. And I said, no, I have to take you to the facility to get this looked at. So I did.

Shane & Spence (03:04)

you

Hmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (03:14)

picked him up, he did not play the game, he rode back on team with the bus. On Monday morning, because this was a weekend trip, on Monday morning, when I returned from work, someone came to tell me that the MPs had picked this young man up, and he had gone to the brig, and that's jail for military folks, and it was because the gash in his hand had been sustained

Shane & Spence (03:37)

Mm=hmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (03:43)

when he was raping and murdering two individuals, two young ladies, one was 16 and one was 20.

Shane & Spence (03:46)

my gosh. Mmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (03:54)

He was running and if he wanted my car if he wanted whatever I could have been victim 3. And this young man was a very bad young man because 25 years later

Shane & Spence (03:55)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Mm

Dr. Pamela Kelly (04:09)

they discovered that he was also the person for a cold case. He raped and brutalized this lady across the Michigan state lines and left her for dead, but she crawled out of the ditch and somebody saw her and she is still living today, but they did not know it was this individual until I think he been in jail for 25 years for the other case. And they discovered it was

Shane & Spence (04:14)

my gosh.

So,

Dr. Pamela Kelly (04:39)

him and he came and to victimize the victim even more he chose to represent himself you guys he came they brought him to the east coast and they did find him guilty but yes so that's one of those things that you just know I am here for a reason because during that time

Shane & Spence (04:51)

Mm. Mm.

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (05:01)

it could have went many different ways. And I just know there was nothing, there was nothing but the Lord protecting me in that situation and keeping that guy's mind in a different state, that he did not harm me because we were right by ourselves in the car.

Shane & Spence (05:04)

Yeah.

Yeah

Hmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (05:19)

by that was my, he truly was my refuge and my protector during that time because danger was right there, right there sitting beside me. Yeah.

Shane & Spence (05:21)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So as a Christian college professor, are you able to share your faith verbally? You know, are you able to actually tell them what you believe and why you believe it? Have you had the chance to do that?

Dr. Pamela Kelly (05:42)

I've had a chance one=on=one. I think because of, don't always, you can't push your faith on folks, but you can say things to let them know that you have empathy and that you care.

when a student contacts me about an issue or a problem and it's related to an assignment or something like that.

If your issue or problem is something that's going on to your life, your family or whatever that's very important to you, then that's the important part of your email to me. So I'm going to acknowledge that first before I deal with the assignment

Shane & Spence (06:20)

Mm=hmm.

Mm

Dr. Pamela Kelly (06:26)

I just recently had one, with another

school but a faculty member that I supervise contacted me she's the only child I just found out

her father Howard has a lump on his lungs and it was taking a toll on her. And I immediately picked up the phone and called her and said, do you need talk? And she says, I don't have any words. So I just prayed with her and then told her that I would add him to the prayer list, my personal prayer list. And then I also belong to a prayer line that meets Monday through Fridays at 5 :30 in the morning. dark 30. Yes, early, early.

Shane & Spence (06:42)

Mm=hmm.

Mm.

Mm.

Early.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (07:07)

And so I added them to the prayer list for that group as well. And so we've been praying for Howard. And when she, the faculty member calmed the next day, she sent me a message and said, thank you so much for just noticing that what I, reading and hearing what I was writing. Cause sometimes people tell you stuff and you don't take account. Like people don't acknowledge

Shane & Spence (07:23)

Mm

Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (07:36)

that they're going through a hard time. And I think I try to make sure I do that. And I do that first before I deal with whatever the issue is with the school.

Shane & Spence (07:42)

Mm. Mm.

I'm sure that that makes you more approachable. Sounds like to your students and to other faculty.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (07:48)

Yes. I hope so. Yes, I hope so.

Shane & Spence (07:55)

Well, you know, one of the, one my favorite things we do in the podcast is receive questions from college students and then we share them with you professors. So a lot of these interview questions come from college students. So, so we have one now from the student, Staley Temple. So take a listen to her

Shane Hartley (08:13)

Hi, my name is Staley Temple and I'm a senior psychology major at UNCW. And with being a psychology major, I'm exposed to a lot of different individuals on the LGBTQ plus community. So I was wondering that, have you ever faced any adversity with students finding out about your faith and being involved in the LGBTQ plus community? If that's ever impacted the dynamic of your teaching or if they've ever expressed discomfort in that and wondering how to navigate that.

Thank you.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (08:44)

I have to say that I have not faced any negative=ism as associated with the LBGT community or having to deal with anyone that represents or is a member. And I think that's because the way I approach it is God is love.

God loves us all. We are all his people. all, you know, we, he died for us all. Everyone doesn't receive, but he died and he loves for us all. And if I am going to be a representation of him, then I love you. I love

you and just because I may agree or disagree with choices you make that doesn't keep me from loving you as a human being.

Shane & Spence (09:30)

Mm=hmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (09:32)

I'm trying to remember, there was a student, I don't remember their exact question, but they were kind of testing  the waters as to whether I had an issue with them.

identifying their pronoun, you know, how you do that. Okay. And I was like, no, no, what did you notice that? And I was like, well, yeah, I noticed it. But, you know, I kind of was like, it's not an issue for me. This we're in a class. I'm your instructor for the class. We are here to talk about health administration. I do have my own beliefs, but that doesn't keep me from treating everyone fair and equitable. And from for

Shane & Spence (09:48)

Hmm.

Mm=hmm.

Hmm.

Mm=hmm.

Mm=hmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (10:15)

and a genuine love for my students and desire that each and every one of them is successful. So, and that's how I approach it and I don't think I've had, there's not been any negative pushback that I'm aware of. I mean, they didn't communicate it to me if there was anything.

Shane & Spence (10:23)

Hmm

Mm=hmm

And that one student who asked you about your comfort using their pronouns, how do you think they would have responded if you showed right then what your biblical convictions were?

Dr. Pamela Kelly (10:54)

You know, I'm not 100 % sure, because I don't like to deflect someone, but I got the impression that they were looking for a fight. Like they wanted, know, know, like, because it, the question was to me a little bit out of context, meaning you just decided, I mean, you've been using, if you've been using these pronouns all along,

Shane & Spence (11:08)

Mm=hmm.

Mmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (11:22)

Do you ask all your instructors that just to see where you are, whether you're gonna use that as, I wasn't sure where they were going with it. So I just thought it was in that particular situation kind of interesting. And I think that had I responded in a different way, maybe they were ready with their...

Shane & Spence (11:24)

Yeah.

Mm=hmm. Mm=hmm.

Mm=hmm. Mm=hmm. Mm=hmm. Mm=hmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (11:48)

But you can't fight love, so they just... So, I mean, I guess I just took the wind out of their sail if they were looking for a fight. I don't know. So, yeah.

Shane & Spence (11:55)

Yeah.

Mm=hmm. Yeah. That's a good point. Well, so one common question that students have as they get to their senior year is what are they going to do afterwards? And Christian students will often struggle with the feeling of, I really want to please God, then I need to be a pastor, a missionary, or work for a nonprofit. And we

One of the things that's a commitment to us is to challenge that idea that we can bring God glory in other work that we do. So I was wondering, how do you see how anyone can bring God glory in different work?

Dr. Pamela Kelly (12:46)

Well, actually this takes us back to the scripture I was trying to quote. I don't remember if I gave the quote for it or not, but I think it's Isaiah 6 and 8 about, you know, God was talking and like, who should I send? And he says, send me. It's just being available. You can be available in the moment, in the day.

Shane & Spence (13:01)

Mm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (13:09)

on your workplace because you are the Bible that some people are not reading. And when they see how you react in the workplace, how you respond to adversities, how you have no problems being who you are in Christ amongst others, then they...

Shane & Spence (13:18)

you

Ahem.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (13:35)

then you stand out. We truly are lights in darkness. And people will see that light shining, and they'll ask about that light, and they'll inquire about that light. And you just have to be able to respond where they're at. You don't have to be over religious and, know, back in the day, my grandmother said it, Bible totin'

Shane & Spence (13:37)

Mm=hmm

it is.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (14:00)

hitting them over the head with the Bible. You don't gotta be all of that. But you just have to answer honestly. And I think when you respond to people in love, you can do that in any work environment. Now, of course, I don't condone going out and being a, what do call it, a professional criminal or anything taken from people. That's not showing love, but.

Shane & Spence (14:02)

Mhm. Mhm.

Hmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (14:24)

for all the professions that I can think of and the opportunities that you have that cross paths with others. That's what our mission is, is to win souls for Christ. And so if there is a soul around you that doesn't know Christ, then you are

Shane & Spence (14:40)

Mm, yeah.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (14:44)

doing God's work by being Christ=like in what you're doing and anything that you're doing for the Lord. He gave you those gifts. He gave you those talents. He gave you the brains to be whoever it is that you want to be professionally. So he is going to also provide opportunities for you to impart your Christ=like attributes, abilities, knowledge into others.

Shane & Spence (14:45)

Mm.

Mm=hmm

Hmm.

Mm.

Jesus would go and heal and often it was to those who were underprivileged, the poor, and now you are working to make that happen. You're training your students to make that happen. To me, that's pretty exciting.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (15:24)

Yes, yes, yes. And my research for my doctorate was about the centers of excellence. know, health care is always constantly changing. But at the time when I was doing my dissertation, it was about trying to get

the groups of the different professions to talk and collaborate more so that there wasn't duplicate. And if there's not duplicate, then maybe it'll be less costly. So if everybody is together and the team decides on what is gonna happen or how a diagnosis is gonna be treated and stuff like that. But as with everything, there is a point where you cross over into it's too much. you gotta be constantly moving with the times.

Shane & Spence (15:56)

Yeah.

Mm=hmm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (16:14)

work is not done. Because of the times we live in, we need good health care administrators. So if anybody's out there thinking about a profession, much needed, much needed, much needed. We need some folks. Call me. Get into that health administration program.

Shane & Spence (16:25)

Good play. It's a good one.

That's great. Call Pamela.

I love it. Well, so we have probably a million things we'd love to ask your advice on for different groups, but we've narrowed it down. So we call this our lightning round. We want to ask your advice on things. So first would be, what advice would you give your 18 year old self? If you could go back in

Dr. Pamela Kelly (16:56)

my 18 year old self, I would say, do not make permanent decisions for temporary

Shane & Spence (16:59)

Mm=hmm

What do mean?

Dr. Pamela Kelly (17:06)

That means just because it looks bad today doesn't mean it's going to be like that tomorrow and many of our younger folks get into this hopeless situation thought processes where whatever is happening today I got a bad grade on the test or whatever so I'm gonna quit school. No, no, no, no, no, no. So that's temporary. We can fix that. It's the proper way. So that's one example you could use. So just do not make permanent decisions on something that is temporary.

Shane & Spence (17:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (17:36)

You got to understand that that's just today in that moment and with God that can change tomorrow But you got to be here tomorrow in order to take care of it. We are I don't like this hopelessness thought it's not it's not hopeless with the Lord. Yes

Shane & Spence (17:47)

That's great.

I'm going to use that again. I've got some college students who are going to hear that this afternoon. That's great. Thank you. So what advice do you give to people, to students who are graduating college and going down the real world?

Dr. Pamela Kelly (17:59)

use that, use it.

Make sure you are attentive to the most important things that you should be attentive to in life. God and your family and those things associated with that. Because that's what's important. Make sure you don't neglect that. And then second, be careful who you let in your space. Pray for discernment.

You don't want them rubbing off on you if they're not like you. You want to be the rub-ee. Yeah. So yeah. So those are my, those are, and I told my college students like, Hey, use your discernment. People are not in the mindset that you are. Yes, we are supposed to go out and win souls for Christ. Where are those who are not, but you don't have to dwell among them and do the things that you know are not good for you.

So you have to be careful who you let in your circle.

Shane & Spence (19:10)

Good. What advice would you give other Christian professors?

Dr. Pamela Kelly (19:17)

Be open to the opportunities to show love, to show grace. Each moment that God allows, you know, there's an opportunity.

Yeah, we don't want to forget to have empathy and extend grace.

Shane & Spence (19:33)

So what advice would you give to other parents of college students?

Dr. Pamela Kelly (19:39)

Easier said than done. But don't lose sleep. Trust God. Know that when you train up a child, what does that say, is it Proverbs 22: 6, I think it is, when you train up a child, they know, they might stray. You know what you did when you were in college and things that you did. But the Lord took care of you. So trust God. Then we get back to Psalms 91.

Shane & Spence (19:41)

Mm

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (20:04)

Trust them that he'll protect them. Because boy, boy, my mama knew I was riding with a murderer, I'll tell you. So I'm just saying, train them up, let them know, you you've done what you were supposed to do if you trained your child and you showed them the way. And believe me, it's instilled. They ain't gone 18 years under your house and you and they ignored it. They heard it. They heard you.

Shane & Spence (20:22)

Mm.

Mm=hmm

Dr. Pamela Kelly (20:33)

They might not always listen, but they heard you. So trust God that just like he protected you during your college years, that he is going to protect them. And then be available whenever they call.

Shane & Spence (20:45)

Mm

Well, Pamela, this is such a treat. Thank you for taking this time with us. And we really appreciate your passion for your students. We appreciate your transparency about your history. And we are so grateful that you have not been harmed and that you went through some dangerous situations safely.

So thank you for this time.

Dr. Pamela Kelly (21:17)

I appreciate it. I thank you guys for having me for reaching out and I thank the Lord. I give him all the glory for the testimonies that he has brought me to and brought me through.

Shane (21:32)

It's not very often that we have interviews with that powerful of a testimony. I'm so grateful for Pamela sharing what she did. And I know Pamela would be happy for you to reach out to her by email. We'll put her email address in the description of the podcast. And if you are a Christian professor and you would be interested in letting students know that you're a Christian, would you check us out on meettheprof.com?

and you can click on Submit a Profile and it's pretty easy. You can share there about how you came to know Jesus and share interesting things about yourself, like what kind of car you drove in college and if you weren't a professor, what would you be doing? So please check that out and consider doing that. If you're a college student and you would like to ask a question to professors, please find us on Instagram, Meet The Prof Official and you can send us a question that you would like to ask the Christian professors.

And lastly, if you would be interested in giving financially to this ministry, you can give online at

So until next time, we hope that this encourages you to have a Christ-centered conversation on your college campus.