MTP 36: Faith in the Fray, Jonathan Kladder Part 2 on Navigating Classroom Conflict and the Purpose of Music

Dr. Jonathan Kladder, Assistant Professor of Music at the University of North Carolina Wilmington, shares insightful conflict resolution strategies drawn from biblical principles for his students. He discusses the original purpose of music, and practical advice for standing firm in your faith on a secular campus.

Read about Jonathan on Meet The Prof: https://meettheprof.com/view/professors/entry/jonathan-kladder/

Email Jonathan: kladderj@uncw.edu 

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Transcript

Shane (00:00):  

Hey everyone and welcome back to *Meet the Prof*. This is the podcast where my friend Spence and I interview Christian professors using questions we take from college students. My name is Shane Hartley and we are very grateful that you joined us. Thanks for listening in. And today we'll hear part two of my interview with Jonathan Kladder from the University of North Carolina Wilmington.

And I think one of the most helpful things I get out of this coming interview is how Jonathan shares how he handles conflict. That's an answer to a student's question named Sophia. So before we jump in, please remember to leave us a comment or review on whatever app you're using or where you're watching this. We would really appreciate that. And so here we go. This is my interview part two with Jonathan Kladder.

Shane (00:53):  

Now I have a question about your role as a teacher now, as a Christian teacher. One of the things you shared on meettheprof.com is that you said something to the effect of, "I try to use my gifts in music to lead others in worship," which I imagine being in church. But is there any way at all you’re able to do that in class with music or is that just, what's your experience like with that?

Jonathan Kladder (01:23):  

Yeah, it's difficult. Like I'm not going to lie. It is not a super easy bridge to connect those two worlds. I do coach a couple of popular music ensembles, which are essentially rock bands. The musicians in those come from a wide range of backgrounds in their faith. I've been able to have conversations, whether coaching or one-on-one, about how I was a closeted punk rocker.

Through those conversations, I talk about being a gigging musician in different contexts, including playing music in church. One of the drummers I work with now is active in her church, and these connections have led to more musicians opening up about their faith backgrounds.

Shane (02:48):  

Really?

Jonathan Kladder (02:50):  

Yeah, I ask questions like, "How did you learn music? What's your background?" And often students say they started in the church choir or led worship in middle school or high school. These broad questions create space for them to feel comfortable opening up, and through that, I can see who the Christian students are. Even students who don't identify as Christians know I am, and that helps create deeper conversations.

Shane (03:56):  

That seems so natural. Students can easily put that together then, his faith means a lot to him.

Jonathan Kladder (04:13):  

Yeah, and for me, the original concept of music is worship. I mean, look at the Psalms. I think God created music to worship Him. And when we think about how we consume music today, I think Satan has taken some aspects of popular music and turned it against its original purpose, which was to connect us to God.

Shane (05:12):  

Where did you get that idea of music’s original intention being for worship?

Jonathan Kladder (05:29):  

God created humans in His image, and in heaven, you see singing and calling out to God. Music is hardwired in everyone. I always laugh when people say, "I'm not musical." I disagree—everyone has music in them. It’s part of how God wired us. We’re made to worship Him through music, singing, instruments, whatever it is.

Shane (07:00):  

Thank you for sharing that. Now let’s go to a question from a student. Take a listen to this question from Sophia at the University of South Florida.

Sophia (07:17):  

When was a time you had students argue over controversial issues in class, and how did you handle it as a Christian?

Jonathan Kladder (07:31):  

Thanks for the question, Sophia. I can think of a few times students have argued, but I teach music, so it's in that context. I coach a couple of music ensembles, and they’re very student-centered. The students make decisions on what songs to play or whether to write their own. They are often paired with students they don’t know well, and as they work together, personality clashes and moral disagreements can come out.

There have been times when I’ve needed to intercede. As a Christian professor, I push into these moments. I first listen and try to understand both perspectives. Then I’ll pull each student aside for one-on-one conversations to hear more. My approach is to stay neutral but help them understand each other. I often bring biblical principles into the conversation—ideas of reconciliation, forgiveness, and kindness.

Shane (10:29):  

Hmm.

Jonathan Kladder (11:12):  

Once I have a full understanding, I might bring both students together to reconcile. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but I always encourage them to listen, to forgive, and to reconcile, even if it’s just agreeing to disagree. Biblical principles guide how I coach them through the conflict.

Shane (14:19):  

These are life skills. This will help in future marriages, jobs, and relationships.

Jonathan Kladder (14:27):  

Exactly, it’s about life skills. I often tell students that the way they handle this conflict now will shape how they handle it in future workplaces and relationships.

Shane (15:08):  

Let’s move on to some quick advice questions. What advice would you give to an 18-year-old?

Jonathan Kladder (15:12):  

I’d say, fight the culture. Stand against it by staying in God’s Word daily. It’s so easy to get sucked into social media and lose sight of what God says in scripture.

Shane (16:08):  

What advice would you give to other Christian professors at non-Christian universities?

Jonathan Kladder (16:19):  

Get connected to ministries like Cru. They’ve been super helpful in encouraging me to be more vocal about my faith.

Shane (16:44):  

Last question, what is something about the life of a professor that would surprise people?

Jonathan Kladder (16:53):  

The complexities of the job—committee work, faculty dynamics, and the tenure process. It’s more daunting than people might expect.

Shane (17:27):  

Thank you, Jonathan. This has been a very insightful conversation.

Jonathan Kladder (17:55):  

You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.

Shane (18:17):  

I hope you enjoyed this interview with Jonathan Kladder. You can find more about him at meettheprof.com, and if you're a college student, follow us on Instagram at Meet The Prof Official. Thanks again for listening!

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Chapter Summary:

- 00:00 – 00:53 | Intro: Shane introduces the episode and explains that it’s part two of his interview with Dr. Jonathan Kladder from UNCW. He teases a discussion on conflict resolution.

- 00:53 – 02:48 | Music and Faith Integration: Jonathan discusses how he uses music to lead others in worship, both in church and indirectly in his classroom by connecting with students about their musical and faith backgrounds.

- 02:48 – 05:12 | Music as Worship: Jonathan shares his belief that the original purpose of music is to worship God, discussing how secular music has shifted away from this intent.

- 07:17 – 14:19 | Handling Classroom Conflict: Jonathan responds to a student's question about managing controversial issues in class. He outlines his approach of listening, using biblical principles, and guiding students to reconciliation.

- 15:08 – 16:08 | Advice for 18-Year-Olds: Jonathan encourages young people to stand against cultural pressures by staying rooted in scripture.

- 16:08 – 16:44 | Advice for Christian Professors: He advises professors at secular institutions to connect with ministries like Cru for support.

- 16:44 – 17:27 | The Complexities of Academia: Jonathan describes the hidden challenges of being a professor, including committee work and the tenure process.

- 17:27 – 18:17 | Outro: Shane wraps up the interview, encourages listeners to visit meettheprof.com, and reminds students to follow the podcast on Instagram.