MTP 16: Will Sparks on self-awareness, imposter syndrome, healthy technology, finding your calling.

Dr. Will Sparks is the Chair and Professor of Leadership at Queens University. He’s a TED Speaker, Amazon #1 Bestselling Author, and an award-winning teacher and researcher. He’s done organizational design and executive coaching for the Charlotte Hornets for over 11 years and had the privilege of working with Michael Jordan.

You can email Dr. Sparks at: sparksw@queens.edu

You can take Dr. Spark's free assessment to find your leadership style and shadow at: www.alpfree.com.

Some takeaways from the podcast interview include:

1. Self-awareness and introspection: Dr. Sparks emphasizes the importance of understanding oneself, including recognizing strengths and shadows.

2. Faith: how he integrates his Christian faith as a professor in his approach to leadership and personal development. He discusses the role of prayer and gratitude in navigating life's challenges.

3. Overcoming imposter syndrome: he acknowledges the prevalence of imposter syndrome and encourages students to listen to their intuition and not compare themselves to others.

4. Balancing technology use: Dr. Sparks highlights the importance of maintaining discipline in technology use to avoid distractions and create space for deep work and meaningful connections with others.

5. Exploring interests and finding one's calling: he advises students to explore various subjects and activities to discover their passions and interests.

6. Community and connection: Dr. Sparks emphasizes the significance of community and human connection in personal and professional growth.

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Transcript

Shane (00:00)

Dr. Dr. Sparks, it is such a privilege to have you on the podcast. Thanks for joining us. How are you doing today?

Will Sparks (00:06)

I'm doing great. Thank you for the invitation. I'm glad to be here.

Shane (00:10)

That's awesome. So  I've learned some things about you online I think one of the interesting things I learned about you is that you're a Rush fan. Do you still like Rush?

Will Sparks (00:20)

I am. I'm a very big Rush fan. They've had quite a resurgence here recently. Their bass player Geddy Lee, of course, has both a best-selling book and a new series on, I think Paramount Plus television series. And so there's a rumor that I've heard that they'll be touring here in this '24 year. So as a pretty long-term Rush fan, going back to the early 80s, I'm

certainly hoping to see them one more time. Yes. I'm in Charlotte. I saw Rush in 1985. My first Rush concert was the Power Windows Tour at the old Charlotte Coliseum, which is now the Bojangles Arena. And I thought that was the coming from Gaffney, South Carolina, small town. That was that was the biggest night of my life seeing my musical heroes at the time.

Shane (00:51)

You're in Charlotte, North Carolina. I think a lot of concerts come that way.

Spence Hackney (01:03)

I remember it.

Shane (01:04)

Is that right?

tell us about your family some, or your work there in Charlotte, connections you've had there in Charlotte over the years.

Will Sparks (01:21)

Yeah, so I am married. My wife Erin and I welcomed our son Bennett Lee Sparks to the world last December 15th. So he is just turned one year old. Thank you. And so that's been a tremendous joy and blessing for us. I'm older and so this is my first and probably only child. And so I had sort of let that dream go.

Shane (01:34)

Congratulations!

Will Sparks (01:52)

had decided I would be the best uncle to my two nephews and niece that I could be, and so I tried to do that. And then God had other plans, thankfully. So yes, so we have a wonderful little fella, Bennett. And my wife Erin is a unicorn. She is a local native Charlottetian, and there are not many native Charlottetians around.

Spence Hackney (02:13)

There you go.

Shane (02:14)

No.

I know you're not just a Charlotte Hornets fan, but I don't know all the details. You've been involved some with the team. Can you tell us some about that?

Will Sparks (02:23)

I have, yes, I have provided leadership development, team development. I've done some organizational design and some executive coaching for the organization. I've been working for the Hornets now for about 11 or 12 years and had the great honor of working for their very famous owner who recently sold the organization but I got to do some

Shane (02:40)

Oh wow.

Will Sparks (02:51)

team building and leadership development work for Michael and the management team there, including the coaching staff. We had one retreat in Asheville, North Carolina, where I had Michael Jordan on one side of the room and on the other side was Patrick Ewing, who was the associate head coach at the time, along with the head coach, Steve Clifford. So

Shane (03:14)

Yep.

Will Sparks (03:15)

I remember sort of pinching myself as I was up in front of that group because I was a big fan of both of them.

Shane (03:22)

well, so I know one thing that college students are interested to know, because my daughter, Hannah, told me she would like to know this about professors. Can you tell us, like, what were you like as a college student yourself? And then maybe even, what's an embarrassing thing you did as a college student?

Will Sparks (03:40)

What was I like? Well, I had a bit of a split as a college student. My first year, I was not a very good student. I was a very good pledge in a fraternity and all of the things that go with that. And then decided that I wanted to get serious about academics.

Part of that for me, the irony is I'm a professor in the McCall School of Business at Queen's University. The irony is I changed my major from business administration to psychology and then I added philosophy and religion as a double major. That's the only way that I would have found the passion for the work I do to go on to graduate school and then to end up in teaching leadership and organizational psychology

in a business school, if I had stayed a business major, I'd have barely, hopefully barely squeaked through accounting and probably would have, you know, run out of the school as quickly as I could and never looked back. And so I had to follow my own path to do that. So I would say my experience as a college student was a little mixed. The first year was a bit of a swing and a miss and then I buckled down and really got serious.

Spence Hackney (04:35)

Mm.

Will Sparks (04:48)

I worked, I had to work part-time throughout my college career.

I'm so glad that I did that. I'm so glad that taught me to really manage my time and to value money and to try to plan and those sort of things around budgeting and planning and that kind of thing. So I think I look at not a...

My experience has been some students do and some students don't. Maybe a comparison I can make our student athletes at Queens that have to manage their time like that and sort of budget their time because of practice and games and they tend to be really excellent students. So it's sort of like the more you do that you know the more you can do and the more time you have to sort of slack off I feel like that it expands that time and we sort of take advantage of that. So as far as something embarrassing

I'll tell you something that embarrassed me, it was before college it was in it was in middle school or maybe my freshman year in high school, but it affected me for all through my college years was that we had a spelling bee. I went to a private school until the 10th grade. I transferred but I went to the Gaffney Day School from kindergarten to the 10th grade and I came in second place in the spelling bee and we had a school-wide K through you know 12th grade assembly and the headmaster, Jean Hastings, recognized the

of the spelling bee, Beth Painter, and Beth got up and walked down and got her award. And then he said, I want to recognize the runner-up, William Sparks. And I got up in front of the whole school, everyone

and walked all the way down to the stage. And I was walking up the steps and he was looking at me and I could tell by that look, he was shaking his head, I don't have anything for you. And so I did an about face and had to walk back to my seat with everyone laughing and sort of snickering. And I don't know what shade of red I turned, but it was very embarrassing and it really impacted me. I had a tremendous fear of public speaking that affected me during college. And so it really,

Spence Hackney (06:32)

Ha ha ha!

Will Sparks (06:53)

you know, that was at a very sort of fragile age of teenage years and, you know, puberty and all that angst, that teenage angst. And so I remember picking classes as an undergraduate that did not have a public speaking component and dropping those that when I got in and realized that they did. So I stayed away from that as much as I possibly could until I realized, hey, I want to be a college professor and I would like to do some public speaking and leadership development. And that means I'm going to have to deal with this.

I gradually did that. But that event was embarrassing. It had a tremendous impact on me through college. And so that was something that probably I still think about today.

Shane (07:33)

Mm.

Thanks for sharing that. I think we all have memories from childhood that it's surprising to us that they do have such an impact and they stick with us so

Can you tell us like how you became a Christian? Were you a Christian already when you were in college?

I guess this is lumping a lot of questions, but even how any steps of faith really, what they looked like for you?

Will Sparks (07:58)

I have a belief that I think I got from my Sunday school teachers and from my ministers and also from my parents.

that I think I was able to have a balance growing up of thinking you will be held accountable for your decisions and your actions. It's not what you think, it's what you do or you don't do. There are going to be consequences for bad decisions and bad actions. And also, you have a wonderful gift that is grace and mercy from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Shane (08:17)

Hmm.

Will Sparks (08:38)

And there's nothing you can do that will ever erode that. And so you are held in a state of grace and you also will be held accountable.

And I always kind of like, well, I'm a Christian and I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and I pray every day. But I also know I have a long, long way to go. And so I don't think it's a slam dunk. I need to work hard to be a better person and a better Christian. And to me, that was a healthy sort of...

a healthy place to be and I think I give my mom a lot of credit for instilling that maybe as much as a Sunday school teacher or a pastor.

Spence Hackney (09:14)

I'm interested, you came to school as a Christian. Like you knew Christ, you were a believer, and then you went into a religion department

But what was it like to know Christ and have faith and be in a religion department university? Was it challenging to that? Was it helpful to that? What advice would you give to a student who's a Christian even?

Will Sparks (09:31)

Yeah.

Spence Hackney (09:34)

that might be in college and thinking about getting in religion classes in

Will Sparks (09:35)

Yeah, yeah,

that's a great question. I think the thing that surprised me was that.

some of my religion professors were atheists, you know, and some of my philosophy professors were agnostic or atheists. And so it, you know, I just assumed that we were all Presbyterian or all Baptist or all, you know, whatever. Like I just assumed I would see him in church on Sunday, and that was naive on my part. So I realized that, no, "I'm a professor of religion, but I look at it from a sociological perspective of how it's, you know, a religious belief or

or organized religion affected the, you know, the psychology and the sociology of humanity." And so it was not at all from a faith-based perspective. So I think that was a learning moment for me.

having that sort of awareness in many ways made my faith stronger as I would listen to

you know, those individuals and sort of hear anger and sort of this sort of state of discontent and a very sense of unhappiness and being unsettled. I remember thinking that it's my faith in Christ that has kept me centered to a certain I mean I've certainly made a lot of mistakes in my life and I would never hold myself up

example of a good Christian, I'm a very flawed Christian and very much on a journey like I think many of us are, but it's been my faith in Christ that has kept me, I think, and provided security in moments of questioning because I mean I think my belief is that the more we question, the more our faith grows. I think I've certainly had my moments of doubt and questioning and trials of faith and

I've come out on the other end, more, I would say more stronger in my faith, more committed to my walk with Christ. And honestly now being a father for the first time, now looking at my son and thinking about the kind of example that I want to set for him.

has been a game changer. It just in a way that I never ever would have

Spence Hackney (11:56)

Oh yeah.

Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of themes that you're talking about that I'm also seeing in Ted talks you've done and books you've written and that sort of thing. How does your, your faith and your belief affected your kind of research and what you've output as far as even books are accepted in the marketplace, you know, and are affecting people outside of that. Tell me about how that's worked.

Will Sparks (12:21)

I'm not sure.

I think I sort of was out leading with going, okay, so I want to create a psychology of leadership and I want to understand why we do what we

you know I was heavily influenced by Jung I certainly would not hold him up there was a like an exemplar or a templar and I don't think he would want to be held up as a traditional Christian.

But I was really interested in this sort of Jungian notion that we have light and dark. And we want to, like typically we want to put us in a box. We want to say, well, I'm introverted or I'm extroverted. And my research is focused more on if I'm an achiever, at my best, I'm detailed-oriented and really organized. But at my worst, I'm micromanaging and critical. And I'm not one or the other. I'm both. And so that to me, that's the Jungian approach of saying,

you got to make peace with that other side if you want to diminish its power over you. That's really what I've done in a nutshell is that sort of like put it out in the light as we talked about a little bit earlier.

And so being mindful of those. But if we deny it, if we say, no, that's not me, I'm the good, I am confident, decisive, and candid, but that you've got the wrong person when you talk about the shadow. I've had clients tell me that.

and they've all fallen. You know, they've all been fired or removed. I mean, you just, you see it playing out. And so when we live in denial, we give it more power over us. And so my sort of my calling in my professional sense and my academic sense have been to try to shine some light on those leadership shadows and have an opportunity for an individual to own it and doing so to better manage it. And some accept that.

Spence Hackney (13:39)

Hmm.

Will Sparks (14:01)

and some don't.

you know, one of my favorite Bible verses is from 2nd Timothy. You know, God did not empower us with the spirit of timidity or cowardice or fear.

but of love and sound judgment and discipline. And I think that to me, when I talk about the three leadership shadows, they're all fear-based. An achiever is a fear of failure. That's why we micromanage. An affirmer is a fear of rejection. That's why we avoid conflict and we're a people pleaser. And the asserter is a fear of betrayal. And that's why we manipulate and try to be a controlled, called a controlling person. And so, because we're afraid of being vulnerable and letting our guard down. And I think that in all of those cases,

Spence Hackney (14:26)

That's great. Yeah.

Will Sparks (14:44)

courage to address that in a different way. The affirmer that has a fear of rejection, their courage is to stand up and say no, but for the asserter the courage is the exact opposite. We have no problem standing up and saying no. Our call to courage is to let our guard down and say I don't know, I don't know the answer or I can't help you or I need help and I think all of it requires courage but it's unique by each of the styles and so I think that's the for

been a real foundation for the work I've done is to allow people to think about courage in maybe a little bit different way and to have that sort of opportunity to step into

Shane (15:27)

Will, do you still have that assessment available for free out there where we can look at, take a test, see which is our leaning of those three?

Will Sparks (15:37)

Yeah, I do. If people want to take it, they just go to www.alpfree.com and that's for actualized leader profile. But it's "alpfree" one word dot com and you answer 10 word pairs and you put in your name and you'll get your style that has the light and the dark. Yeah.

Thank you.

Shane (15:58)

Awesome. That would be very helpful. Thank you. We'll put that in the show notes if we figure out how to do that.

So, Will, I'm curious about your relationship with your students. You're talking about some things really deeper and even painful at times to face our shadows. And you're approaching this as a Christian. How much are you able to tell your students about your own Christian faith, your angle at looking at these things? Do you tell your students even that you are a Christian?

Will Sparks (16:31)

Yes, so I have taught graduate students for the last 20 years or so. I think my last undergraduate class was 03.

Spence Hackney (16:39)

Thanks for watching!

Will Sparks (16:40)

So I typically teach a little bit of an older student and the value of that is that, you know, if you've been around long enough, you've been knocked down and you've been humbled. And so that's not always the case, but many times it is. And so I think there's a willingness to maybe do a little bit of a deeper

They know that I'm a Christian and probably know that I'm a Lutheran. That will come out in one way, shape, or the other.

in my leadership presentation.

you know, I do have a verse about being transformed by the renewing of your mind. And that's an underpinning of this work is that if we can come to groups with the fear that's holding us back, and we can embrace it or turn towards it, it releases us. And that be transformed by the renewing of your mind is something that I say, whether you're religious or not, the wisdom in that verse is incredible.

Spence Hackney (17:12)

Mm. Roll it in.

Will Sparks (17:34)

gotten dinged on some student evaluations who've said, you know, keep your faith out of the classroom.

is unfair in my opinion because if I were of a different faith and I mentioned that I think it would be sort of celebrated so I think there's a little bit of

Spence Hackney (17:45)

Mm.

Will Sparks (17:46)

irony there or maybe hypocrisy but not but for the most part and the reason I do that is because I have a number of students who come up to me after class or will email me during the semester or after the semester and say thank you for sharing your faith. Thank you for sharing that. I just I didn't think that there were any faculty members

that were Christians, especially in the business school. I didn't think we had any of those. And so, you know, I always appreciate those. And I think that it connects with a lot more than it may turn off. But I do, I'm very serious about creating an inclusive classroom environment where everyone feels free to share their faith.

but I'm quite certain that every student I've had in the last 20 years knows that I that I'm a person of faith.

Shane (18:35)

You know, there's been a lot of writing about things that students, young people struggle with today. The mental health crisis or emotional health,

fears about the future, trying to figure out what they want to do for a career. What do you see as being some of the more important

struggles that students are having today and then any help or advice you would give to students.

Will Sparks (19:06)

Well, I think you nailed them. I mean, I think all of those struggles are very real.

I think it depends at the level of graduate or undergraduate.

and they're

they're sort of universal and a lot of it comes down to imposter syndrome. That would be, I think there's, if there's any sort of underlying sense that maybe cuts across many of those, maybe not all of them, but many of those fears. We feel we're not good enough, we're not smart enough, we don't make enough money, we don't live on the right street, we don't drive a nice enough car, we, you know, whatever, our grades aren't high enough, which is all of this sort of stuff. And I think if people can let that go and just compete with themselves and not, not constantly

Spence Hackney (19:31)

Hmm.

Mm.

Will Sparks (19:45)

compare themselves to others. They're going to be in a much happier place. And that's related to, I guess, the thing that I would mention is just putting our technology down. I think our addiction to being hyper-connected and social media and making sure that the world knows what we're having for dessert or making sure that the world knows we're on vacation or making sure that the world knows we're unhappy with the service we had at this restaurant or comparing ourselves to, you know, we were happy about our vacation until we

Spence Hackney (20:10)

Mm-hmm.

Will Sparks (20:14)

we realized that our neighbors were in Vail We thought we were having a great time and skiing in Western North Carolina, and it turns out that they were in Aspen. So, and all of a sudden we're miserable. So I do think there's tremendous angst and unhappiness that comes from "hyper-connected". And I think it interferes with our ability to truly realize that we're spiritual beings. We are spiritual beings having a human experience and a focus on materialism and connection

Shane (20:25)

Mm. Hehehe.

Will Sparks (20:45)

and comparison to others, I would say, you know, my remedy would be to turn your phone off, take off your shoes and socks, and go walk and find a grassy lawn somewhere on

the other thing I'm worried about is the ability to connect with other people. I mean, I think that our faith becomes alive in community and we need community for a lot of different reasons and we're communal beings. And I think

Spence Hackney (21:01)

Mm-hmm.

Will Sparks (21:08)

to me, I'm worried about the omnipresence of technology and social media.

Shane (21:13)

That's helpful. Thanks. Thanks for that challenge.

Spence Hackney (21:13)

There seems to be a discipline we all need to learn around technology now, is what you're describing. Like it's here, but we all need to learn some discipline about putting this thing down and kind of healthy boundaries with it too.

Will Sparks (21:27)

I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, we don't have the space of the time to hear God's voice, you know what I mean? And so if we ask for guidance in a prayer and then we immediately pick our phone back up and see what our neighbors are doing or our friends are doing, you know, so I do think to your point though, it's here. And I think we, you said the right word discipline. We have to have the discipline to use technology and not let it use us.

Spence Hackney (21:32)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Will Sparks (21:53)

And I actually think that the students who have the discipline to do that, I talk about flow as a big part of being self actualized as a leader, you have to get in this flow state and flow comes

I mean, whether we're writing or performing or we're working or whatever it is, like we just lose ourselves in the moment to be our very best and we have to give ourselves enough runway to do that and if we're constantly checking our phone, you know, or we're hyper connected or we're texting, we're just, we have these break, break and so we're never able to do deep work and that if you

do deep work because they're going to own the business, you know, and you're going to be working for them. So I really encourage students like put it down, find your calling, find your passion, and don't let it become your master.

Shane (22:30)

Hmm.

Hmm.

you gotta tell us more about that, because I know students are asking practical questions. How do I find my calling? What job should I pursue? What career should I pursue?

And how would you practically advise them when discerning bigger questions like

Will Sparks (23:01)

I think that we have to take responsibility for that and we have to be mindful in those first couple of years of our freshman and sophomore experience, expose ourselves to a lot of different classes, a lot of different subjects, and listen to our intuition and listen to our heart. And that's a very Jungian kind of concept. I mean, Jung put intuition as...

not only a sixth sense, but he would put it at number one. So he would put it above sight and hearing. So we do have this voice inside of us, but it's not gonna scream. We have to

Shane (23:28)

Hmm.

Will Sparks (23:34)

And if we're prayerful and we're listening for that guidance, I think we have to go, okay, so where do I feel, what would I do for free? I think that's one thing. Is there a subject matter that you like so much that you're taking all of these extra electives? And

the other thing I would say to students is to realize that you are at a very trying time in history. Never before have there been forces out in the environment that are there to distract you.

that are there to encourage you to stay hyper-connected, that are there, there are algorithms to hook you on Instagram. They're out, they've figured out a way to not only give you ads, but to hook you what you're gonna follow, what you're gonna like, and so you've gotta be aware of that, and not just blindfully scroll for three hours. But even in a larger sense, society's telling you, don't ask big questions, don't dream too big, have another beer,

Shane (24:06)

Hmm.

Will Sparks (24:35)

game, watch another game on television, you know, it's just all of this that dulls us, dulls us, and we get lulled into, and you know, I know right now you may be 19, 20, or 21 years old, and you know, but 10 years will go by like that, and all of a sudden you may wake up one day when you're 30 or 32, and you think, how did I, how did I get here? Like this, I am not happy. I see that a lot with returning graduate students. So, take that time now to sort of create a bubble around you with, you know, that allows

Spence Hackney (24:37)

Mm-hmm.

Shane (25:00)

Hmm.

Will Sparks (25:05)

you to explore what you're interested in, be mindful about disconnecting. For me, be prayerful. You know, prayer is a very important part of my life because prayer has...

saved me so many times. I mean it just being prayerful, have a heart of gratitude, I think that you know be mindful. You

Spence Hackney (25:18)

Yeah.

Shane (25:25)

Well, so we're coming to a close on our time. How is it that students can find you? How can they reach you or interact with you? Can you tell us the best way?

Will Sparks (25:38)

Yeah, so a couple of ways. They could email me at queens here. My email address is sparksw, s, p as in Peter, a r k s w, all lowercase, at queens.edu (sparksw@queens.edu.)

I've also got a website, which is www.drwillsparks, all lowercase, one word, drwillsparks.com.

They could reach out that way as well and contact me. I'd be glad to talk to anyone about any topic they may have.

Shane (26:11)

That is great. And your book, Actualized Leadership. I imagine they can find that on Amazon or any place we find books.

Will Sparks (26:19)

Yes, anywhere pretty much. anywhere pretty much. It's on

And then the new book, Actualized Teamwork, then the new book, Actualized Teamwork, will be out hopefully later this year, probably in the summer. be out hopefully later this year, probably the  manuscript has been finished and sent to the publisher, so excited about that as well. the publisher, so excited about that as well. Thank you. you.

Shane (26:37)

Oh, that's great.

Spence Hackney (26:38)

Awesome.

Shane (26:42)

Yeah, definitely. Congratulations, that's coming through.

Will Sparks (26:45)

Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate

Shane (26:47)

Well, thanks for this time. It's so good to get to spend time with you.

Will Sparks (26:49)

Thank you all. I appreciate it very much. Thank you all so much.

Spence Hackney (26:53)

Very nice to meet you.