MTP 15: Nate Callender on public speaking, recognizing God-given gifts, how to overcome fears, science and belief in God, struggling with your faith Christian apologetics, and the value of students and professors building relationships with one another.

Nate Callender is an Associate Professor in the Aerospace Department of MTSU. He shares his journey from hating public speaking to becoming a professor, recognizing how God-given gifts can help in career decisions, and how transparency helps us overcome fears. He addresses the compatibility of science and belief in God, highlighting arguments for God's existence. Nate encourages students who are struggling with their faith to seek answers from God, surround themselves with believers, and study apologetics. Lastly, Nate emphasizes the value of students and professors building relationships with one another.

You can email Nate at: nate.callender@mtsu.edu

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Chapters

• 0:00 1. Introduction and Early Rebellion (00:00-01:16)
• 1:17 2. Academic Struggles and Personal Awakening (01:17-03:19)
• 3:20 3. Romantic Journey and Spiritual Growth (03:20-04:59)
• 5:00 4. Embracing Teaching and Overcoming Shyness (05:00-06:25)
• 6:26 5. Science, Faith, and Professional Integration (06:26-08:52)
• 8:53 6. Community Importance and Combatting Isolation (08:53-10:08)
• 10:09 7. Facing Fear and Anxiety through Faith (10:09-13:45)
• 13:46 8. The Interplay of Science and Spirituality (13:46-16:50)
• 16:51 9. Student Interactions and Personal Advice (16:51-19:30)
• 19:31 10. Closing Reflections and Outreach (19:31-End)

Transcript

Shane (00:00)
Well, Nate, thank you so much for joining this podcast. I'm excited for the time with you. How you doing today?

Nate Callender (00:07)
You're welcome. I'm doing well. It's good to see you guys.

Shane (00:09)
Good, great to see you too.

I'd just love to dive right in. Spence and I would love to start to get to know you more. And I'm interested, you shared on meettheprof.com that you had a rebellious childhood. Will you tell us more about that?

Nate Callender (00:27)
Sure, I'd love to. That's a relative thing. It seems rebellious to me. I don't know how on the scale of rebellion, where it would fit, but I know it was rebellious. I grew up in a really loving home with parents who are Christians and who love Jesus and who raised us in the local church. And

My dad, I can remember in high school, so the things of life that lure you away definitely got their hooks into me. My dad wanted me to read. This was his tactic for trying to get me into God's word. And I appreciate it more

Spence Hackney (00:53)
Mm.

Nate Callender (01:09)
on this side of life than I did on that side. And that was he wanted me to read a Proverb a day. So pick one chapter of Proverbs and read that. I fought that, didn't wanna do it, didn't wanna read the Bible, had no desire to do so. I just wanted to be with friends and do what I thought would make me look cool. And it wasn't until I said yes to Jesus that I took him up on that offer. And it was amazing and still continues to be.

Spence Hackney (01:11)
Hmm.

Shane (01:15)
Hmm.

Spence Hackney (01:16)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Nate Callender (01:39)
I fought it, I just did my own thing, lived for myself until God brought me to a pretty low space around the age of 19. Things just weren't working out for me, I was not performing well, so God gave me an academically oriented mind. High school was a breeze. I really didn't have to work. But I got to university and it was not a breeze. It kicked me in the butt for the first year and a half.

Shane (01:58)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Spence Hackney (02:03)
Mm.

Nate Callender (02:07)
and ended up leaving the first institution that I went to out west and came home basically with my tail tucked between my legs. Started working, started taking some classes elsewhere at a local school just to kind of get my feet back under me. Still not focusing on God. At that point in time my attention turned towards a young lady who I'd grown up with, who I'd always thought was beautiful. And we started dating and got pretty serious.

Shane (02:26)
Mm-hmm. Who I'd grown up with, who I'd always thought was beautiful. Mm. And we started dating and got pretty serious. And I wanted to go to, I wanted to enroll in a school near where she was in school. And because I performed so poorly at my first institution, that school said no. Mm. And.

Spence Hackney (02:26)
Mm.

Nate Callender (02:35)
And I wanted to go to, I wanted to enroll in a school near where she was in school. And because I'd performed so poorly at my first institution, that school said no. And I remember coming home, I was working, so I grew up in West Tennessee in a little town called Hulls, and I worked at a seed company called Herp Seed, throwing seed sacks and doing hot, hard manual labor. Great for a college student, I think.

Shane (02:50)
in a little town called Holes. And I worked at a seed company called Herb Seed, throwing seed sacks and doing hot, hard, manual labor. Great for a college student, I think. So I was doing that, I was exhausted, I came home for lunch, opened this letter up from this school that said

Spence Hackney (02:56)
Mmm.

Nate Callender (03:02)
So I was doing that, I was exhausted, I came home for lunch, opened this letter up from this school that said, we're not gonna let you come here. And that point in my life, it just broke me down. And so I was on my couch in my parents' home crying, just because I was so broken down. My focus is on this young lady, couldn't go to school near her because of this rejection. And my mom, I remember it, she put her arm around me, and she said, Nate, and I don't know why she's, well.

Shane (03:19)
Just because I was so broken down. My focus is on this young lady.

Nate Callender (03:32)
I know now why she said it. I don't know what prompted her or how long she'd been thinking about that. She said, Nate, do you know who loves you? And there was no other answer in my mind. It wasn't her, it wasn't dad, it wasn't that young lady. I said, yeah, I know God loves me. And at that point, God flipped a switch in my head and heart. And from that point on, that wasn't always a clear path. But from that point on, I knew who he was and I knew that I was his and I started living for him.

Spence Hackney (03:49)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Nate Callender (04:02)
So I would say that at that point, that's when I truly became a believer and started the growth process of getting to know him more. And when I went back to school that following semester and I came to MTSU after that as an undergraduate, I'd already been there a semester or two, but when I came back, I had this desire to jump into God's word. And I did that. And I did that more intently than I studied

Spence Hackney (04:12)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (04:31)
for any of my classes, but also my motivation for study went through the roof and my grades all went up to where they should have been before. So just my motivation, my focus was all in line at that point, so he really oriented my whole life at that point, but I did go through the Bible fairly quickly at that point, and I started that practice of a Proverb a day, and it was

Shane (04:39)
all went up to where they should have been before. Good. Just my motivation, my focus was.

Spence Hackney (04:39)
Hmm

Mm-hmm.

Nate Callender (04:59)
I think knowing what you're made for, knowing who made you and knowing who loves you has a lot to do with motivation for life. I know I'm his, I consider myself, so Jesus was a carpenter and that's a pretty apt mental picture because I consider myself a tool in his hands. And so I wanna be a really nice, sharp, useful, precise tool. And so prep for classes, doing research well.

Studying, knowing more about Him, I think helps me to be a little bit sharper tool. Kind of like Paul. Paul was prepared. Paul was a studied, educated man. And once God got a hold of his heart and mind, he was a very useful tool.

Spence Hackney (05:40)
Mm-hmm.

Nate Callender (05:41)
so this is another definite God-moving thing. As a child, I was, and still am, very shy.

I can be happy with just a few people around. I typically, big crowds don't really light my fire. I did not want to speak in public as a kid in classes if I ever had to speak up, you know, the nerves and anxiety just...

Shane (05:59)
Hmm.

Nate Callender (06:05)
just got to me, didn't like that at all. And it was in college, in a speech class, of all places, where God broke me of that. For what, I don't know why, but during that speech class, He just enabled me to speak in front of people. It forced me into that, forced me out of my comfort zone into doing it,

Spence Hackney (06:11)
Hmm.

Nate Callender (06:25)
and started the process of opening me up to that. And so then a few years later, when Sarah and I, my wife and I were married, we were married in June of 1998.

We started looking around for local churches here in town. Also, God worked in her, that's the young lady I was pursuing by the way. So yeah, we've known each other since first grade. I remember my mom drove me to school in first grade. The first time I ever saw her, Sarah was standing out front and mom said, Hey, that little girl is pretty. And.

Shane (06:43)
Good. God worked it. Wow.

Spence Hackney (06:44)
Oh, it worked.

Nate Callender (06:59)
She's been up here ever since, but we went on one date in high school, but we started dating in college like I shared earlier. We then were, God worked in her heart around the same time as he worked in mine, which was amazing, because if that had not have happened, we would not have happened. So he brought us to him and then brought us together through him.

Shane (07:05)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (07:18)
But we were looking for churches here in Murfreesboro, and we found one with a great...

great Sunday school class now called life groups or whatever you want to call them. And it was huge, it was packed, and it got so big that a couple other young couples, including Sarah and I, discussed starting our own newlywed class because there were quite a few there. The age of the group was probably about a decade older than us on average. So we did that. And so that's where I first started teaching. And that's where first God first started revealing

a desire and a gifting to teach. And so one thing I would say, I know this is very student-oriented, but for anybody, as a believer, I think we really need to keep our eyes and ears open for our giftings. Because that's where God wants to use us I think the most is where he's gifted us, because he did that for a reason. So I'd say if you can't recognize it in yourself, which I think you can though,

Shane (08:10)
because that's where...

Nate Callender (08:23)
Be open to other people speaking that into you and saying, hey, I see this in you and complimenting you in certain ways when it's true and sincere. So I feel like it's just a God gifting for teaching because on my own, I wouldn't wanna do it because it means getting in front of people. And still to this day, pretty much every time I walk into class, there's a little bit of anxiety to overcome. But as soon as the mouth opens, it's like God just takes it all away.

Shane (08:24)
speaking that into you and saying, hey, I see this in you and complimenting you in certain ways when it's true and sincere. So I feel like it's just a God gifting for teaching. Hmm.

means getting in front of people. And still to this day.

Nate Callender (08:52)
and it's fine.

Shane (08:52)
Wow,

Spence Hackney (08:53)
what was it like to like put yourself out there to do something risky?

which is probably teach a Sunday school class, something maybe you felt a little unprepared for, you know, possibly, but then that becomes your career. You know, that becomes what you do. And imagine if you hadn't done that, if you had said, no, I'm scared, you know, I'm not gonna stand up. Tell us about that a bit.

Nate Callender (09:14)
You know, Spence, it's a great question. I think one of the main things is to recognize and even speak out to the God who made you, I am scared. I take David as a great example, who spoke out his hurt, his doubt, his anger to God. I think that's the important thing. He didn't go off and complain to other people. He didn't let it run him away. He went to the one who could do something about it, which is the God who made him. So I think recognizing that and just saying, God, I'm willing.

Spence Hackney (09:21)
Uhhh

Yeah.

Nate Callender (09:44)
like the "here am I, send me" sort of moment, so I'm willing to do this, but you're gonna have to move. You're gonna have to show up for this, for it to really work. So, I mean, I like more and more, I like pushing myself through fear and anxiety. I'm also afraid of heights, and I'm a pilot.

Spence Hackney (09:53)
Yeah.

Shane (10:05)
Wow.

Nate Callender (10:08)
So if you get me on a roof, and this is not uncommon, anecdotally I've spoken to many pilots who are commercial pilots who do a lot more flying than I do, if you get us on the edge of a roof, we are so uncomfortable. I gotta get away from the edge of that roof. The knots in the stomach just twist up. But if you get me in the cockpit of an airplane, if you get me behind the controls, or if you get me on the control bar of a hang glider, I will run off of a cliff and be just fine.

Yeah, God does some very strange, non-intuitive things with us. Taking somebody who's really shy and putting him in front of people every day for his job. Taking somebody who doesn't like to look off the edge of a house and having him fly over, you know, off a mountain, literally. So yeah, it is an interesting path. But I like pushing through that because one of the things, Spence, I think it does is that

Spence Hackney (10:57)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (11:07)
it's a bit of a faith exercise to do things that you know you probably wouldn't do on your own, but that you've got the God of the universe in you and around you to help out.

Spence Hackney (11:09)
Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. I think that's something I want my kids to hear is be willing to do hard things. Be willing to do things that you're scared of. I think about Joshua a lot when you said that, Moses was told by God, do not fear, be strong and courageous. Joshua was told that by Moses. Joshua was told that by God. And then before they hear the promised land, the people had to tell Joshua again to be strong and courageous. We have to hear that over and over because we're like riddled with fear. But...

do it anyway. That's the moral of the story is just because you're scared or it's hard, do the hard thing. What a great story. That reminds me of what you told us about getting in the ice bath. It's another hard thing, right? Well, I mean, what's it like to step in that ice bath in the morning when it's freezing cold?

Nate Callender (12:06)
So that actually, Spence, is causing more fear and anxiety on a daily basis right before I get in it because I know I'm about to do it. And so yesterday, like I told you, I had to go out with a hand weight and break up the inch thick layer of ice on the top of the ice bath and then step into it. So it's a mental victory. You guys, I know you know of Jordan Peterson.

Shane (12:14)
anticipating.

Spence Hackney (12:33)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (12:34)
and Jocko Willink and people like that who are speaking out a lot on certain areas such as being a man in today's world or simply being a responsible citizen right now. So one of those things is making your bed that I'm pretty sure it's Jordan Peterson talks about in his 12 Rules for Life, I think is the name of his book, but he says, make your bed every day because that's one daily victory you can have to get you started each day. And I think those hard things that we push through

Spence Hackney (12:45)
Yeah.

Shane (12:46)
One of those things is making your bed.

Spence Hackney (12:54)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (13:03)
are mental and spiritual and physical victories. So whether it's working out and running when you wanna stop, but making yourself keep running or whatever exercise you like to do, or getting in an ice bath where you know it's gonna be cold and for the first minute it's gonna hurt, or continuing to write that paper when you just really don't feel like writing that paper, if you can just push through and make yourself do the work, it's a mental victory.

Spence Hackney (13:16)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (13:29)
and knowing that you've had a victory enables you to know you can have another

And I think those ups and downs of life are those battles we have to continue fighting and know that are going to be there. Because once you've passed over one hurdle, like Elijah on that mountaintop moment, he may have to be reminded about it, but he can think back and say, yeah, God did that with me. God did that through me. I saw that. So I can face the next mountain. Okay, I can get up out of this desert and go back and serve God again. I know it's going to get hard again.

Spence Hackney (13:47)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (14:01)
but I know what he's done in the past, I know he can do it again. So each of those little bitty battles gives you more experience with the God of the universe and what he can do through you.

Shane (14:11)
So I was wondering if you could share as a scientist, as an aerospace engineer, how do you believe in God? Why do you believe in God? Maybe what are some arguments that have been most convincing to you? Or, you know, how do you reconcile

these two of being a scientist and a believer?

Nate Callender (14:33)
An intelligent person believes in God for the same reasons that an unintelligent person believes in God. It's the same reason that anybody should believe in God. It's because it's true. Truth I've heard defined as what coheres with reality. So you hear a statement.

and you've got your experience with reality. Do they fit? Do they match? In my life, God matches with reality. I know that I have been a fallen person. I know what sins I've committed. I mean, I can't recall them all right now, but I know when I commit them, I remember it. I know my fallen nature. And I also know that I can't make myself right.

Spence Hackney (15:10)
Mm.

Hmm.

Mm.

Mhm.

Nate Callender (15:25)
I need somebody else to do that.

And scripture tells me that that's what Jesus came to do. And that he's the only one who could do that.

I think it's in Hebrews it said people won't believe, if they don't believe that God exists they can't come to faith in

Spence Hackney (15:42)
Mm-hmm.

Nate Callender (15:42)
in Jesus basically. They've got to first believe that God exists. As a scientist, as an engineer, where I design things and I could recognize design, one of the big arguments for God's existence, just to start there, is the teleological argument, the argument from design, which roughly goes every complex specified design has a designer.

The universe exhibits complex and specified design, therefore the universe has a designer.

Shane (16:12)
complex and specified design, therefore the universe has a

Nate Callender (16:17)
These are some things, by the way, I share in my classes from time to time, when it happens to work with the content of the class.

Shane (16:20)
Really?

Nate Callender (16:23)
and which I think for professors is something that we should look out for. How does your faith and your field fit? Like how do they go together? Because they're not different. Uh, there's really no part of life that should be sectioned off from the other.

Spence Hackney (16:33)
Hmm.

Nate Callender (16:40)
See, I think for a scientist, going back to the original question, it should be a little bit easier to believe in the God of the universe because as a scientist, I look for causes for effects.

Shane (16:40)
See, I think for a scientist, going back to the original question, it should be a little bit.

Nate Callender (16:53)
and he is the biggest one. So we should be able to see evidence for that. And you can see, you ask, how can intelligent people believe that? Well, just look at history. Think of a famous scientist. Go pretty far back. More than likely, that person is a believer. At least in the concept of God, if not in Jesus himself.

Spence Hackney (16:56)
Mm-hmm.

Shane (16:57)
Hmm

Spence Hackney (17:15)
Hmm.

Shane (17:18)
who are some that stand out. You could throw out some names.

Nate Callender (17:19)
Newton is a big one. Isaac Newton, one of the biggest scientific names in history, was a believer. It actually dedicated his biggest work, Principia Mathematica, to the creator of the universe. Francis Bacon, the father of the scientific method, believer.

Shane (17:33)
Hmm.

Nate Callender (17:40)
even somebody like Einstein, who was not a believer later on in life, came to recognize the need for some sort of ultimate designing intelligence for the universe. So I'd say scientists are more primed to see the evidence for God than many other people in life.

Spence Hackney (18:02)
Thanks 

Shane (18:02)
Nate, what kind of response do you get from your students when you share these things? Because you said you share these in your class. Have you had students who have raised issue with that, have complained, you know, how can you bring faith into the classroom? Or have you had some positive responses?

Nate Callender (18:21)
Shane, it's really been all positive. The way that I handle my classes, I don't know if you guys remember the first day of classes when you're in school, but as an introvert, shy kid, the first day I did not look forward to it because I knew the tactics of some professors was to have the class do introductions. Every student tell everybody else about themselves, at least their name, if not other things. I used to hate that.

Spence Hackney (18:45)
Hmm.

Nate Callender (18:49)
because it meant you had to speak in front of everybody. Well, now that's my favorite day of class, actually. I mean, the first day, because I do that,

I do the introductions, but I lead by example, so I do one first. And in my introduction, I tell them way more about myself than I ask them to share with the class. And so I tell them where I'm from, about my family, about things I like to do.

Spence Hackney (19:08)
Mm.

Nate Callender (19:16)
my flight experience because most of my students are pilots. I'm an engineer primarily, but my students mainly are pilots. But then I always end it with, and the most important thing about me is that I have and I continue to be a believer in Jesus Christ.

and then we move on. And it depends on what class it is, but where it fits with the material, other things come out.

And one of the times that things come out is in an aerodynamics class, when we're talking about gas laws.

And pressure is a really big scientific quantity in aerodynamics. And somebody who's worked quite a bit with pressure historically is a guy named Blaise Pascal.

Blaise Pascal is an example of somebody from the past who learned a lot about a lot. He is known in mathematical circles. He is known in philosophical and theological circles. He is known in engineering and physics. And here's some examples of things that he did.

and I'll give a mathematical example of something that he did, which we actually use later on in the class as well. And then I'll give a theological and philosophical example of something that he did, which is Pascal's Wager. And I'll do Pascal's Wager on the board, which ends up that if you were a betting man or a betting woman, you are betting your eternal life on what you choose to believe in this life.

Shane (20:24)
Hmm.

Nate Callender (20:48)
And Pascal's Wager, I don't know if you've seen it recently or remember it, but the outcomes to what you believe with the two possible realities being either God exists or God doesn't exist, the outcomes for your belief or non-belief in one of those two is that if you choose to believe, the worst possible outcome at the end of your life is nothing. If God doesn't exist, you die, nothing. But if you die having believed in and loved God...

Spence Hackney (20:50)
Mm.

Nate Callender (21:17)
and he does exist, it's all like a heavenly thumbs up from there. But if you choose not to believe in God in this life, the best possible outcome is nothing. Because if God is not there, then you don't exist either, you're just done. But if God does exist, and you didn't believe in him or trust him, it's a huge heavenly thumbs down. And I draw all this stuff out on the board. And so...

Spence Hackney (21:38)
Wow.

Nate Callender (21:42)
that little Pascal's wager and other little things that just naturally flow with the material are like rocks in the shoe. It's hard to get around it.

It's something you're going to be thinking about for a while. And I've had students come back and talk to me about later. So you ask about response. There's rarely ever, if ever, a response at the time, because we're just moving on, talking about material. But it's afterwards, sometimes years afterwards, that students come back and say something. And actually I've had one student name his first child Pascal because of

Shane (22:12)
and

That's helpful. Thank you, Nate. What advice would you give to a student who is struggling some with their faith?

say maybe they want to believe in God or they're just not sure and they're willing to look into God. What would be some advice you'd give them? Maybe some simple first steps.

Nate Callender (22:43)
You know, one of the things that, I guess the first thing I'd say is what we talked about with David before. When David struggled, he's my best example for that. He went to the God with whom he was struggling. He had some issues with God. He was sometimes angry. And he went to God with that.

And I would say if somebody, if a student is struggling with their faith, with...

apparent contradictions between what they hear somewhere and what the Bible says, whatever, they need to go to the God who can help them. Like truly seek answers from Him. Because I do believe if we sincerely and truly reach out to Him, He will answer us in His own way.

So that's the first thing. You can also go to trusted and respected Christians who may be a little bit further down the road than you are.

whether that's your parents, hopefully it could be a parent, it could be a friend, it could be a professor. I mean, I hope that could be me for students, which is one of the reasons why I identify my belief at the very beginning, if somebody wants to talk to me about that. I hope they'd feel comfortable doing so. Could be a pastor. You know, talk to a believer, read God's word. I would say that. So,

When you get that in you, God can use that in you. But it's hard for him to use it if it's not there. I mean, he can miraculously pop it into your brain. I do believe he can do that. But I think if it's there, he can bubble it to the surface a little bit easier than if it weren't there to begin with.

Surround yourself with believers who can be encouraging. If you are isolating yourself, it's only gonna get worse. And that's...

That's for all of us, not just students, that's for adults, that's for you guys as well. You've probably felt times where you're low and you're a little bit isolated and the natural desire is to stay isolated, but you know you've got to push through that and get around other believers who can encourage you even if you don't want to at the

Spence Hackney (24:46)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (24:51)
if you've got struggles because you've got unanswered questions, studying apologetics can really help. It's just prepping yourself with good answers. And there are not only does scripture do that, but there are other Christian authors who do that. C.S. Lewis is one of the classic

Apologists from the 20th century, like the main one from the 20th century, writing the main, his main apologetic text, which would be Mere Christianity. I'd encourage every believer and non-believer to read that. Some current authors who you can read are William Lane

Spence Hackney (25:23)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (25:30)
Reasonable Faith and On Guard are excellent books that'll help you answer questions. Actually one of the first

apologetic books that I read was entitled, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, by a guy named Frank Turek and Norman Geisler, who's now passed away. But it's an excellent one. So tons of books like that, that I could encourage folks to read that will help them answer those difficult questions and maybe get through a tough spot.

Shane (25:58)
There's some good ones, thank you.

Spence Hackney (26:01)
Hey, you mentioned something earlier, which I kind of hung out with is the importance of having a community of like-minded people you can go to. And everything I've seen recently is about how depression on the college campus has skyrocketed and it seems to be tied to kind of isolation. You know, they're kind of, we're all walking around with AirPods in now instead of talking. And so first thing is, you know, are you seeing that?

And the second thing is, what advice would you have for a student in how to deal with a sort of different college environment potentially now? What's your thoughts there?

Nate Callender (26:38)
there are a plethora of ministries on college campuses. Find one with whom you fit, you know, the people that you click with, who are like-minded believers, join it, be a part of it, because it will really ease your transition. There are many other more secular groups you could also join, and I'd encourage you to join those too, but.

Definitely join a group of believers when you set foot on campus. Have some strong connection.

I'm a part of a men's group.

I had been a part of men's groups for probably about 15 years now, where we meet once a week, we read scripture together, we just talk, we just hang out, share things from life together. And that has been amazing. I think, I'm just speaking from a guy's perspective, because I am one and a dad, before, I didn't know what I was missing until I was a part of a guy's group. And truly, those guys' groups...

are as much church for me as when I step into a big brick building on a Sunday morning.

Shane (27:40)
building on a Sunday

Spence Hackney (27:41)
Mm.

Nate Callender (27:43)
I would say don't enter into what could potentially be a long-term serious relationship with a non-believer. I think it could only lead to pain down the road. You know, I've not experienced that. This is just the wisdom that I read in Scripture because we're told that. Don't be yoked to an unbeliever.

Spence Hackney (27:49)
Mm-hmm.

Nate Callender (28:01)
And when you enter into a marriage relationship, that is a really beautiful yoke, if you're two believers. If not, you're gonna be trying to pull in opposite directions, and it's gonna be more like

Spence Hackney (28:08)
Mm.

Shane (28:10)
Hmm.

Spence Hackney (28:14)
Yeah.

Nate Callender (28:17)
But you know, I also read in scripture folks like Paul that the marriage relationship isn't the end goal of life and it isn't everything and it's not for everybody. So, you know, I think there can be an inappropriate, unbalanced focus on that. Like to be a true believer and a godly person, you gotta find a mate.

Shane (28:31)
Mm.

Nate Callender (28:42)
And that is not the case. So I'd say if you're a believer and you're open to what God has for you, it might be marriage, it might not be marriage. You can be open to both of them.

Spence Hackney (28:43)
Mm-hmm.

Nate Callender (28:52)
I'd say worrying about a specific person that God has set aside for you, I don't even know if I believe that. I don't know that there's this magic soulmate

you know, person, I believe God can take two people and bring them together through him that may not even like each other to begin with. You know, I don't think we can force ourselves into any cultural, you know, more modern cultural norms because we could have been born into a culture where marriages were arranged. And I think those can be healthy and loving.

if you dedicate yourself to somebody else. And some of that comes down to what love truly is. Love is not a sexual thing. True love is what Jesus did for us. He sacrificed himself for us. He served other people. That was true love. So if you can sacrifice yourself for and love and serve somebody, you can love that person and maybe like them a lot too.

Shane (29:58)
Well, Nate, thank you so much. This is all very helpful. And if students want to find out more about you, you're obviously on meet the prof dot com. But what are some other ways that they could follow you or reach out to you?

Nate Callender (30:00)
You're welcome.

I do have some videos on YouTube if they want to look it up, some things that I've done, teaching things that I've done in our Open Arms faculty group here on campus or different talks that I've given at different conferences. So they can look those things up if they really want to search it out. But my faculty webpage here at MTSU, you can just go to mtsu.edu and search for my name. But that includes all my contact info. My phone number.

which is my cell, which you can text me if you want to through that, my email address. You can see publications and presentations that I've made if you want to see more of the scientific professional side. But I think I also have my CV attached there which has more information on it if they want to find me. But anybody is welcome to call me, to email me about anything. And this is what I tell my students in class as well. Definitely on the last day of classes.

Shane (30:43)
Wow.

Nate Callender (31:10)
If you ever want to reach out, feel free. It could be about course content, it could be about aviation, aerodynamics, aircraft performance, or it could be about anything. Feel free to reach out at any time. So yeah, my faculty webpage is how they can find me.

Shane (31:26)
That's great. Well, it's so generous of you to put your cell phone out there I feel almost protective of you like you sure you want to do that? Thank you

Nate Callender (31:36)
You know, what I find harder is to get students to reach out, Shane. I think, so when you talk about relationships, the thing that comes in my mind is my relationships with my students and them with me. And I think that's, so, advice to a student is start to build those relationships, not only with your classmates and friends, but with your professors. I desire it, but I'm not going to force it. I stand in front of the classroom and talk for an hour and 20 minutes every time I'm in there.

Shane (31:41)
Is that right?

Spence Hackney (31:42)
Yeah.

Ahem.

Wow.

Nate Callender (32:06)
basically. But

If anybody listening to this wants to reach out for whatever reason, feel free to do so.

Spence Hackney (32:14)
Do you think most professors feel like that, that they are hungry for kids to reach out to them to form a relationship or is that unique to you?

Shane (32:15)
Nate, thank you so much.

Nate Callender (32:24)
No suspense, I really don't know. I would hope that most of them do. I know others do want that, but then you've got some curmudgeons who probably don't want it. So I don't know what the stats are on that.

Spence Hackney (32:35)
Yeah, yeah.

I had a professor in college who actually, yeah, he actually reached out and said, hey, you three guys wanna go to lunch? His class was like at over at 11.30 and I was blown away. I'm like, a professor wants to eat with me and he became one of our best kind of friends, you know? So it's very honoring to kids for you to be that way, I think. Thanks for doing that.

Shane (32:40)
Most of the people we have on the podcast want it.

Nate Callender (33:01)
Yeah, I think there's a balance between a professional relationship, which we definitely have as faculty and student, and a personal relationship, which we can have. And I think the professional has to be solid and there's got to be a definite relationship that's professional in the classroom and outside the classroom. But as the years go by, I believe it can become more personal. And at the point of graduation, I think it can definitely

Spence Hackney (33:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Nate Callender (33:29)
be personal. So I think it's a growth in that over time.

Spence Hackney (33:31)
That's great.

Shane (33:35)
Well Nate, thank you so much. This was a wonderful time. Appreciate you taking the time to be with us.

Nate Callender (33:41)
You're welcome. Thanks for the invitation.

Spence Hackney (33:42)
Yeah. Thanks so much.